Whitehorse Daily Star

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RIGHT TURN ONLY – Access in and out of the new Ingram subdivision is by right turn only off Hamilton Boulevard, leaving a number of drivers making U-turns on Hamilton Boulevard. It's one of a number of neighbourhood public safety concerns a resident of the area brought to council Monday evening. Denny Day

You've got work to do in Ingram, council told

The inability to turn left out of one of Whitehorse's newest neighbourhoods is creating public safety issues, says one of its residents.

By Stephanie Waddell on June 17, 2014

The inability to turn left out of one of Whitehorse's newest neighbourhoods is creating public safety issues, says one of its residents.

"There are several issues on the plate,” Denny Day told council at its meeting Monday evening as he launched into a presentation on the issues.

"It was very poorly designed,” he said.

He pointed first to the exit which forces residents to turn right onto Hamilton Boulevard when leaving or pulling a U-turn at the intersection, as some are choosing to do.

Day suggested something should be done to remove the landscaped island at the entrance and exit for the

neighbourhood to allow for left turns to make it safer.

Inside the neighbourhood, the safety problems continue, with no play areas set aside for kids.

That leaves a large number of children who Day estimates to be between the ages of three and 12 playing in parking lots and streets.

His condo, for example, backs onto a parking lot – which means there's no outside play area for kids living there.

While there is a playground in the neighbouring subdivision of Arkell, Day pointed out that it's obstructed by trees from Ingram.

Consequently, it wouldn't be safe to send Ingram children there without supervision, Day said.

Under questioning by council members after Day's presentation, city staff confirmed the entrance and exit to the neighbourhood off Hamilton Boulevard was designed with the island there to prevent left turns.

As noted by Brian Crist, the city's director of infrastructure and operations, the access was designed to meet national standards with another access from Ingram into Arkell. From Arkell, drivers can turn left onto Hamilton Boulevard, he noted.

Linda Rapp, the city's director of community and recreation services, said she believes there is money set aside for a play area in Ingram. She plans to look into it further to confirm there is.

Rapp also pointed out the city takes a close look at the type of play area that would be best for each area when it's developed.

That could mean deciding between a tot lot, larger playground or a neighbourhood rink depending on what the neighbourhood could benefit the most from.

While it could be some time before a play area is in place, Coun. Dave Stockdale questioned the possibility of lowering the 50 km/h speed limit through the subdivision as it has done in Hillcrest and Takhini, where speed limits are now 30 km/h.

"This is a very constrained (area),” he said, stating the city should look at it.

Coun. John Streicker then suggested the letter Day sent to council detailing the safety concerns be forwarded to the city's traffic committee for consideration.

The committee is responsible for bringing forward recommendations to council on traffic issues, such as speed limits on city roads.

After last night's meeting, Mayor Dan Curtis said he isn't in a position to say exactly what should be done right away.

Rather, he wants to see the matter first go to the traffic committee for consideration.

The city regularly receives calls from people with concerns around traffic safety in different areas of the city, Curtis said, adding those concerns are taken seriously.

"We do go through a real process,” he said.

The traffic committee considers numerous factors in its recommendations, ranging from required standards, public safety, cost and legislation that must be met.

It's expected the committee will look at the issues in Ingram and later report back to council.

Comments (22)

Up 5 Down 3

Geist1976 on Jul 3, 2014 at 8:25 am

Roundabouts at every intersection I say! Make y'all dizzy in prep for your slackadoodle Govt "work".

Up 10 Down 10

Johnson on Jun 26, 2014 at 6:01 am

It's easy to say this isn't needed if you don't live in Ingram, Arkell or Granger. It's a safety concern, and if you live in the community you should share concern for its residents. Fix the road before someone is fatally injured.

Up 7 Down 15

Erica on Jun 25, 2014 at 11:08 am

Our chant as Ingram residents: We have the RIGHT to turn LEFT!

It is a huge flaw and the solution of using Arkell is not a solution. It is not fair to congest their neighbourhood with our traffic, Ingram didn't even exist when folks bought in that area. I would like to prove how wrong this is by everyone in Ingram using Arkell for one week.

To the people wondering why we bought there in the first place, I loved the house so much that I fooled myself into thinking it wouldn't be a problem but- it is, I'm reminded of this every time I wish to go to the Canada Games Centre.

It is very unfortunate that to correct this will ultimately cost us all in taxes but the people who bought in Ingram are not to blame.

The closest call I've had to getting into an accident at that intersection was when I was using the exit correctly. Arkell traffic gets very annoyed (with reason) at the Ingram residents pulling a u-turn (because it delays their ability to get onto Hamilton) I was exiting and a vehicle from the Arkell exit pulled in front of me because they assumed I was going to pull a u turn and they wanted to block my ability. I was headed straight and I had to slam my brakes in order not to t-bone them, and it was icy winter time driving.

Up 11 Down 7

no such thing as a 'safe' u-turn on Jun 25, 2014 at 8:13 am

Well, Ingram Dude, maybe you are one of the several u-turning drivers in the past few months I've had to slow down or slam on the brakes for when heading downtown on Hamilton. I agree with you, however, that it's dangerous to pull out on Hamilton, but that's due to the constant speeding. As much as I hate to say it, a round-about may be a solution, if only to slow people down.

Up 7 Down 14

Ingram Dude on Jun 24, 2014 at 9:31 am

People complaining about a U-turn on Hamilton are crazy. Turning left out of Arkell you have to cross three lanes of traffic and it is impossible to see what is coming!

A U-turn on Hamilton is a simple procedure with a merge lane from Granger making an entry not only possible but safe. I was doing this safely for ages before someone decided to put a no U-turn sign up before even looking at the issue.

If you really want a solution, put another roundabout at the Arkell/ Granger entrance. This would also serve to slow down all the traffic that roars up to the next round-about and the school.

Up 31 Down 7

Yukon Justice on Jun 24, 2014 at 8:37 am

No one should be allowed to make a City or YTG decision in the Yukon until they have lived here ten years.

Up 13 Down 5

spud on Jun 24, 2014 at 3:31 am

I cant believe the problem has just been noticed. The entrance/exit problem has been clearly evident since the beginning. If the COW engineers have any traffic sense they will not consider any change. The congestion created by the school zone and existing cross walk does not need and cannot safely handle another entrance to Ham.Blvd. I fully support young children attending their local school be allowed to ride a school bus for safety reasons - just like Kwanlin Dun which is somewhat closer & other areas in the City. Who in their right minds would buy in Ingram for this reason only. The resale value of their homes will be much less compared to other areas of the City for this reason.

Build the children a nice park/play area including a skating rink as they are our most precious resource and deserve resources to help prevent their being led astray. 30Km/h is a sensible speed limit.

Up 28 Down 7

Local Drifter on Jun 21, 2014 at 5:13 am

"It was very poorly designed" So you bought in anyways?

Up 7 Down 11

woodcutter on Jun 19, 2014 at 9:46 am

Another brilliant design. Now all those folks in Ingram drive by my house to wait at the intersection to get down town. Now why would some self appointed critic think a one way in and the other way out, is a sound design principle?

Arkel was busy enough, before Ingram, now its much more busier.

Imagine if there was a need to evacuate or perhaps an accident at the exit from Ingram, that blocked the road for hours?

I bet the noise would be different and the council would be kicking the construction guys to remove the meridian and dried up bushes.

Up 20 Down 4

Francis Pillman on Jun 19, 2014 at 9:34 am

Roundabout lol.

Up 47 Down 3

Michelle on Jun 19, 2014 at 7:28 am

I can't help but wonder why this is a city issue (that would cause my taxes to increase yet again). Did these people not see the access road when driving to view the house before they purchased it?

I agree that it would be a pain to have to go through Arkell. Yet didn't you choose this when you chose to purchase in Ingram?

As for potential accidents from U-turns on Hamilton - STOP making U-turns there during peak traffic times!!

Up 31 Down 10

Atom on Jun 19, 2014 at 6:24 am

I'll be straight to the point -

This is the north.....can't have folks from the south design anything here.....they just don't know.

Up 16 Down 14

Happy Ingram Resident on Jun 19, 2014 at 5:50 am

@Yukoner 2 - Ingram is still under construction in some areas but it most definitively is not a hole OR anything like Whistlebend. You obviously have not been there in quite some time.

It would be nice to have a nice little park for the kids. Wouldn't that make any area nicer? So there may be one not too far away in Arkell. So what? There are more children in the area now. I don't have a small child but I would be in favor of my tax dollars going to this type of project.

Up 24 Down 5

Sally on Jun 18, 2014 at 1:07 pm

Adding an intersection that close to another intersection and a merge would be crazy pants. Ingram is already an over-glorified expansion of Arkell, no reason it can't use Arkell's entrance. Arkell's park space is huge, ask to have some of the trees removed if you're worried about visibility. That park was intended to serve both areas because again, over-glorified expansion.

Also, you're talking about a difference of a kilometer or two at most between using Two Mile Hill or Hamilton Boulevard Extention.

Up 17 Down 7

Tannis Preete on Jun 18, 2014 at 5:03 am

It is unfortunate that this horrible design was put in place; it is obvious that the intention was for people to be forced to use the Hamilton Extension (South Access) rather than head downtown. The option of creating more traffic through another residential neighbourhood, Arkell, is equally problematic. You see, we have to sit at Heron, waiting for all of the traffic coming and going to the French School and we really do not require addition congestion at that intersection. As well, there is significant congestion trying to get onto Hamilton off of Falcon. It is often difficult to see who is coming at you down or up the hill. Being an uncontrolled intersection, there is often very near accidents. Adding to the traffic flow is not going to improve the situation.

Up 28 Down 11

Derp on Jun 18, 2014 at 4:06 am

Gau and crew dropped the ball again.

The only densification that occurred here is between their ears. They built a neighbourhood for people to live with no actual place to live. No parking, no storage for boats, RVs, ORVs, snow machines etc. No place to pile snow. Not even room for kids to play. Brilliant!!

Wait until the neighbourhood is full and all those people are making illegal turns in front of the already congested Hamilton. There have been accidents there already and eventually somebody will get killed.

Up 46 Down 5

Wayne on Jun 18, 2014 at 4:02 am

I've been to Ingram recently. It is a nice neighbourhood. Not particularly child-friendly, but well laid out and pleasant.

It's much nicer than I had thought. Residents should use whatever egress is already in place.

Up 31 Down 23

Yukoner 2 on Jun 18, 2014 at 12:52 am

That place is a hole that people shouldn't have spent their money on. Just like whistle bend, people are going to buy up that s$%# hole too and then complain about it later!!!!!

Up 27 Down 16

Jane Smith on Jun 17, 2014 at 3:27 pm

I live in Ingram and I absolutely despise the fact that I cannot make a left turn onto Hamilton unless I drive through Arkell. In the morning rush hour, plenty of people are doing illegal u-turns on Hamilton at the Arkell exit - it is only a matter of time before there is a huge accident.

Up 40 Down 14

Just Say'in on Jun 17, 2014 at 12:47 pm

You see this is what happens when the City or YTG try's to create entry level affordable housing. People no sooner move in and nothing is adequate for their lifestyle. Sometimes affordable means just that. It just never stops does it????

Up 34 Down 3

martin oreste on Jun 17, 2014 at 11:32 am

Don't worry; I suspect COW will put a round-about thanks to a Federal Funding Application. One there and another at 60 m East at Thompson & Hamilton.

Up 49 Down 13

Daisy Duke on Jun 17, 2014 at 9:11 am

The COW better not remotely consider reorganizing that area to accommodate this complaint. People in Ingram just need to exit via Arkell like they have been told many times and all will be good.

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