Photo by Vince Fedoroff
Dave Stockdale, Mike Gladish, Tony Gaw and Richard Zebruck
Photo by Vince Fedoroff
Dave Stockdale, Mike Gladish, Tony Gaw and Richard Zebruck
It was standing-room-only inside council chambers Monday evening as supporters of the proposed outdoor sports complex in Whistle Bend took another kick at persuading council to consider rezoning to permit the complex.
It was standing-room-only inside council chambers Monday evening as supporters of the proposed outdoor sports complex in Whistle Bend took another kick at persuading council to consider rezoning to permit the complex.
Coun. Samson Hartland had brought the motion back, seeking council support to reconsider the rezoning.
Council ultimately defeated the motion in a 4-3 vote (see separate story, p. 4). However, six delegates first voiced their support for the project, with only one voice heard against it.
Former councillors Mike Gladish and Dave Stockdale each returned to council chambers for the meeting – this time as delegates anxious to reiterate their views made last April.
A 3-3 vote that month defeated the rezoning at second reading (any tie vote by council is an automatic defeat) with Stockdale storming out of that meeting early over the issue.
Gladish had been among those who voted against while Stockdale had voted in favour of the rezoning for the project that the territory is proposing to build.
Last night, both former councillors reminded the current council of their reasons for voting as they did.
Gladish recalled the concerns over public consultation and little public support for the facility.
Gladish, who also worked in recent years as the general manager of the Whitehorse Cross-Country Ski Club based at the Mount McIntyre Recreation Centre, went on to recall the centre’s history.
He noted it was a gift that has since “burdened taxpayers.”
He noted it was built in the late 1970s as a cross-country ski facility thanks to outside funding sources.
Within five years, the city had been asked for financial support.
Eventually, the high costs led to the inclusion of a curling club – an amalgamation of the two clubs in the city at that time – to help make the facility more viable.
Facing bankruptcy eventually, the facility was turned over to the city, with the ski club and curling club managing their own parts of the facility.
“Mount Mc is not sustainable without (support),” Gladish said, noting the aging building is now in need of significant upgrades.
He went on to argue the proposed operational budget of $50,000 annually for the proposed complex “does not add up.”
He said there’s no certainty that the artificial turf for the fields can stand up to the cold temperatures of the North.
He then asked the new council to defeat the motion once again.
Stockdale later countered Gladish’s comments by noting that it’s too bad the ski club couldn’t look after the chalet.
He also argued the facility should not be compared to the Mount Sima ski and snowboard facility which has had its fair share of financial issues over the years.
He is convinced that the Yukon Outdoor Sports Complex Association can handle the operations at the proposed facility.
He also emphasized the many athletes who would make use of it.
“It is a sports complex; it’s not a soccer complex,” he said.
While the approximately 1,500 soccer players would be the prime users, Stockdale added, athletes generally would see major improvements from their current track and field facilities.
“Track and field facilities in this town are pathetic,” said Stockdale, who served on council for 32 years until his defeat in the Oct. 15 election.
The complex would be owned by the territory, he pointed out, with the city benefitting from property taxes that would be paid.
“What does the city have to fear?” Stockdale asked.
While the Canada Games Centre and the transit system both cost the city money, he pointed out, they are part of what makes Whitehorse a great city.
“Please don’t look this gift horse in the mouth,” he said.
Tony Gaw, who heads up the sports association, also addressed council.
He pointed out the cost of the project has gone down to $5.5 million, with the operating numbers confirmed by an Outside consultant.
The facility has little maintenance nor irrigation, heating and so on.
“We’re here to support active living,” Gaw said as he outlined the benefits of an outdoor sports complex and the interest in user groups ranging from rugby players to the Golden Age Society and others.
“It’s for everybody,” he said.
Coun. Jocelyn Curteanu asked him about public consultation.
Gaw said the group hosted two meetings about the project a couple of years ago, advertising via its web page and in local newspapers, as well as a couple of meetings a number of months ago on the project.
Also urging the city to reconsider the project were Cali Battersby, who works for the Yukon Soccer Association, Athletics Yukon head coach Don White, Whitehorse Recreational Coed Soccer Association treasurer Lenore Morris and Judo Yukon president Richard Zebruck.
The soccer and athletics representatives stressed the need for improved facilities.
White emphasized the groups are not seeking world-class facilities but simply those that meet a competition standard, noting that the arenas in the Canada Games Centre were built to standards – one meeting NHL standards and the other meeting Olympic standards.
Zebruck acknowledged his sport would not be a user.
However, he argued anything that helps grow sporting activities in the city helps the community as a whole.
As a non-profit with no ties to the complex, his group supports it fully, he said noting that if it’s run properly, it wouldn’t cost the city anything.
After the 4-3 vote defeating the reconsideration, Grant Zazula, the president of Whitehorse Minor Soccer, expressed disappointment in the mayor, arguing “he’s playing politics” because he isn’t fond of the Yukon Party government.
He said the mayor didn’t provide the degree of leadership the sports complex issue deserves.
Zazula also noted his disappointment with Gladish.
He questioned the appropriateness of Gladish speaking out on the matter, given the ex-councillor’s former position as manager of the ski club.
The vote by council, Zazula said, means there are going to be a lot of disappointed kids in the city now.
The Star sought a comment from Community Services Minister Currie Dixon on Monday night’s vote.
Cabinet spokesman Dan Macdonald said the minister has nothing new to add.
Macdonald did point out Dixon had taken to Twitter this morning on the matter.
There, the minister tweeted: “No path forward for this project in the immediate future. Designs will have to go on the shelf for now,” and later, “New fields/track would have been wonderful addition to our rec infrastructure.”
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Comments (33)
Up 13 Down 9
Brian Wilson on Dec 19, 2015 at 9:37 am
Yeah, we could call it the Brian Lawson Whining Centre....free admission with coupon
Up 8 Down 17
@disappointed soccer kid on Dec 18, 2015 at 3:22 pm
Obviously you don't understand what the concept is here and are just jumping on yet another band wagon to criticize.
First the soccer teams and the athletics teams do fundraise all year to go on tournaments. They bag groceries, they sell raffle tickets which they look for business donations for. They firesmart, they do bottle drives and sell chocolates. The parents are doing that with them. The coaches check the fields before every practice to remove dog feces, sticks, glass, needles, large rocks and whatever else may pose a danger. They mark gopher holes, they fill gopher holes. They cancel practices because the fields are double booked or too dangerous. The coaches, managers and parents work very hard to keep the fields from being a hazard and they volunteer to do the fundraising with the athletes.
The idea of this complex would be a dedicated place for the majority of games/practices. The fields we have now would still be used for soccer, just less, then more groups could use the fields without them being torn up by cleats. The complex would be used from May until October, my calendar tells me that would be 6 months, so half a year not three months. That is how long the fields are used now by the way. But as for tournaments, we would be able to invite teams to come here instead of taking our spending money outside.
The USA Cup in Minnesota hosts over a 1000 teams (I know we would not be that) but when the organizers tried to get it started they were told it could not be done and nobody would ever go to Minnesota to play soccer. They host the world to world class soccer now.
Glad their Municipality didn't listen to the complainers and kept an open mind.
Up 50 Down 2
Respectfully Realistic on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Brian Lawson, you said a youth recreation facility. What about the existing multi million dollar Canada Games Center which provides every imaginable recreational activity for youth. What about the many other facilities focused on youth in Whitehorse?
The argument that there are not enough existing facilities and sufficient indoor or outdoor activities for youth in Whitehorse to stay fit and healthy just doesn't hold any water.
Up 31 Down 2
Disappointed Soccer Kid on Dec 18, 2015 at 3:35 am
I'd be pretty disappointed in my parents if I knew they didn't do all to get out and make sure the ample fields that we have been allotted were raked clean and minor repairs done so that we children could enjoy ourselves to the fullest given the abundance of recreational facilities we are now endowed with. If we want to travel we have to have bakesales, bingos and car washes like 1000 other teams have done not look for a taxpayer handout on some prima donna whim.
Up 4 Down 48
Brain Lawson on Dec 17, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Its obvious that most of the people that are posting negative reviews and giving the thumbs down to the positive ones have nothing better to do than sit on their butt and complain! Obviously they know nothing about healthy living and the benefits of a recreation facility. A YOUTH recreation facility people! Where are your heads at?
Up 30 Down 4
north_of_60 on Dec 17, 2015 at 10:20 pm
@Prevention is priceless parrots the debunked misconception that an $8 million dollar soccer pitch and running track will somehow stop kids from doing crimes.
The small but visible youth minority who commit crimes already have all the sports opportunities they could want. They're not committing crimes because they can't play soccer; they're committing crimes because that's what their social group does for fun and status.
Up 27 Down 2
Jack Colby on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:25 pm
YEESH - yet a facility that will be used 3 months a year
Up 38 Down 2
David on Dec 17, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@ Why So Nasty- If you are referring to me I do apologize for the snake oil salesman comment, at the end of the day these people are trying to get more facilities for children and you can't fault them for that.
However I stand by the fact that I grew up in the Yukon without anything remotely close to the facilities offered in Whitehorse today and never got into crime, drugs, or anything else detrimental to society. There were so many better things to do as a kid and teenager as long as I made an effort. An additional soccer facility or the lack thereof is not going to make or break youth crime in this city, period.
Up 22 Down 56
why so nasty??? on Dec 17, 2015 at 6:28 am
There are obviously those in support of the complex, and those opposed, just as with every project. For some reason though, this project has brought out the worst in people - nastiness and name-calling. When the newspaper reports crime stories, people lament about what's happened to our nice community - But when I see the nastiness in comments about a sports facility of all things, I wonder what's happened here too.
Up 41 Down 3
Pjt1959 on Dec 16, 2015 at 6:22 pm
For me it really does not matter but what bothers me is the ski club against it in one breath, and in the next want 75,000 for seed money to pave ski trail. Maybe they could have used the track then all would be happy. Then say well it would be another millennium trail. This then puts us as tax payers on the hook for repairs and up keep of the trail. That is my rant.
Up 17 Down 45
Prevention is priceless on Dec 16, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Show up to Youth court Thursday at 2pm-it is open to the public. Take a look around the room and do the math on how many YG and Fed employees are there dealing with the youth caseload. There are hundreds of thousands of dollars spent daily simply dealing with youth in court for mischief to violent offences. Soccer is the cheapest sport for anyone to participate in. For every hour a kid is playing a game is one less hour they are possibly getting in trouble. Not to mention the life skills and relationship they are building.
Invest in our youth.
Up 15 Down 64
brian on Dec 16, 2015 at 4:25 pm
1500 soccer players x $35 facility fee = $52 500. Add a track association fee and it covers the operation cost.
Up 91 Down 17
David - Lifelong Yukoner on Dec 16, 2015 at 4:00 pm
I am extremely pleased by our mayor and councils decision on this. The organized sports crowd has been very pushy for the last several decades and up to now have been getting almost everything they wanted. This time they were clearly told no by a mayor and council who (mostly) have the gumption to stand up for the voters who elected them into office. I also do not for a minute believe any fiscal information put forward by these individuals or organizations who are completely biased towards getting what they desire. Whitehorse residents (taxpayers) have been stung by similar snake oil salesmen in the past to many times already. I also believe Whitehorse has ample existing sports and recreational facilities as well as being located in the middle of a wilderness paradise for anyone, children included, who wish to be active. As a young person who grew up in the Yukon myself with none of the recreational facilities currently offered in Whitehorse, I was able to stay incredibly fit and always had active,interesting things to do with my time.
Once again, I congratulate mayor and council on the stand you have taken. I am pleased that we finally have city leadership that is standing up for the electorate instead of special interest groups. In the next municipal election I will not be voting for any of the three councillors who supported this motion.
Up 69 Down 11
Thank you on Dec 16, 2015 at 3:35 pm
Want not - waste not. Why is it so vital to spend, spend, spend? We have enough of that going on right now in Ottawa. We all need to remind ourselves that in the end 'someone' has to pay.
If it is important to you then do like a lot of us had to do many, many years ago, go out and make it happen as a community effort and stop going to trough.
Thank you to those Councilors for not permitting the rezoning and wasteful spending to occur.
Up 16 Down 64
Jwhite on Dec 16, 2015 at 3:17 pm
Watching council meeting, it was pretty clear that most, and probably all, of the decision makers arrived at the meeting with their minds made up. One even had her speech already prepared! This is not how council should make decisions, and it shows a real lack of respect for people who took the time and made the effort to appear before council. Most disturbing - once councillor said she was influenced most by a Facebook page, where, in her incorrect opinion, posts are made by "real" people, with real names and photos. Get a grip - anyone can use any name to get a Facebook page. But real people appeared at the Monday night council meeting. Whether you are for or against the project, at least you deserve the respect of having your presentation listened to and considered. Good to know, that, in future, if a person wants this councillor on side, Google the Facebook page for that issue and post your opinions there.
Up 13 Down 78
Negative development party on Dec 16, 2015 at 12:32 pm
Disappointing for all.
Up 17 Down 82
Mandeep Sidhu on Dec 16, 2015 at 10:00 am
I don't understand this logic. The costs for setting up the project are completely covered by YTG; liberals announced more funding for infrastructure projects; the city would be on the hook for the operation of a "pitch" and track. In comparison to the new consolidated building, current costs of maintaining the CGC and Sima, a pitch and track isn't that expensive. Our bus system has seen an increase in riders but the overall revenue looks to be down (free buses for high schoolers). The City's norm is to go into the hole. When given a chance to have something that may generate revenue they've decided to say no. Strange.
The people that are commenting "you can't keep the area flat because of drainage..." aren't really aware of what can be done. Site preparation is key; this point is a false flag. It has no substance.
Those that commented "why aren't they maintaining the current fields..." The reason why is fairly easy; every year in the past the fields would be shut down for a month after thaw. During this time they would be seeded, fertilized and redone. Which was effective if no one used them. The problem is that the soccer season starts right away and games aren't called rained out. Cleats and soccer teams leads to damage. (we use to play in running shoes but that was found to be unsafe so cleats became mandatory)
If you're from the Yukon then you know how hard it is to grow and maintain grass. With fields the additional factor to consider is the extreme wear and tear. 20 - 30 soccer teams, students, baseball, etc. an artificial field would stand up to these rigours. The people asking this question aren't being realistic. They'd find more success asking the city why they haven't maintained their current buildings. "It's just to hard, they're old, we need something new."
In conclusion, think of this city as if it were your own house. Would you turn down a new lawn if it was paid for and you were on the hook for maintaining it? When your siding is getting a little bad and you find asbestos; do you sell off your assets, buy a new plot of land, then build a new house?
The City isn't being real or logical . . .
Up 80 Down 13
Always a Yukoner on Dec 16, 2015 at 8:54 am
There is enough outdoor fields to accommodate ALL soccer players. If the club wants another, then they should start to fund raise and build their own, utilize what is there. City of Whitehorse did the right thing!!!
Up 75 Down 11
@what on Dec 16, 2015 at 7:08 am
Disappointed children or disappointed adult children without enough sense to keep their kids' out of political process - promising something they can't ensure they can deliver
Up 14 Down 71
User1 on Dec 16, 2015 at 12:34 am
Well, there goes the money back to Ottawa. Good job Whitehorse! Not...
Up 65 Down 12
CJ on Dec 15, 2015 at 10:24 pm
This is quite the performance by these pro-soccer people. You don't often get the chance to see such inept public communication in action. They basically say to the mayor, sit down, shut up and rezone, they protest Gladish speaking, but not Stockdale, they clearly think everyone who isn't on board is stupid, and they accuse us then of abandoning children. T They're simply frothing at the mouth. I hope they keep it up because it's a marvelous thing to watch. But they probably should shut up, because I'll bet there's a number of people who were neutral until they caught one of these guys' speeches.
I don't believe one word of their economic forecasting. Not one word. Maybe they believe it. But those numbers are speculative. What's going on here? Is this the YP and some supporters going to the wall to show something for the next election?
Up 64 Down 11
north_of_60 on Dec 15, 2015 at 7:52 pm
@Snaky " Our kids deserve not breaking an ankle in a gopher hole."
Then we can expect that you will organize a group of soccer parents to fill the holes early in the Spring before the 3 month soccer season.
...or is that someone else's responsibility?
Up 64 Down 8
Bobby Bitman on Dec 15, 2015 at 7:29 pm
I know a solution! The proponents who are so sure that there will be no costs to the city and that this $5.5 million facility will be self-funded can offer personal financial guarantees to cover any financial short falls.
Crickets.
Up 63 Down 12
Who Voted Yes on Dec 15, 2015 at 6:54 pm
I want to know which two other councillors besides Hartland voted yes for this complex so I know who all I won't be voting for next municipal election.
Up 20 Down 67
Educate yourself on the facts on Dec 15, 2015 at 6:50 pm
FACTS:
-Whitehorse Minor Soccer, alone, has 1100 registered and paid players AND it is only one of the six affiliates of Yukon Soccer, so the 1500 soccer players is correct.
-Athletics Yukon (track and field organization) grew immensely this past summer with the hope of the new facility. It travelled with it's largest team ever to outside events, including Western Canada Summer Games. The team currently trains on a near-concrete track and the infield is unusable due to the poor construction and unloved ground. The team resorts to training at a local Elementary school small field of grass. There is no long jump pit or throwing circles. THIS ARE ALL BASIC requirements for training. Whitehorse has no safe or proper facilities for athletics. We cannot dream of hosting any competitions or meets as we do not have a standard facility in which to host. What other sport in the Yukon is unable to host sanctioned competitions?
-Outdoor complexes exactly like this one are found across Canada and in Alaska. Fort McMurray has three of them. They hosted the Western Canada Summer Games this past summer and their track facility was built by the same engineers. It withstands much harsher climate than here, winter and summer. They receive higher summer temperatures and much more precipitation winter and summer than we do, and it's usually colder there, on average. Their facility is maintained with LESS than $50,000 annually.
-City Council was to vote on the rezoning - NOT the costs of the facility or faults that they may dream up. All answers were given to the public had people including council and mayor taken the time to attend the public meetings.
- None of the councillors attended an athletics training session to talk to the users and members of the club to gain a better understanding of the needs and the current facility limitations.
-Jocelyn, Roslyn, Betty, and Mayor - you have questions but you never came to ask the support groups - you merely listened to the complainers. Sad. Betty, emails were sent to you in support that you never even opened to read. Sad.
-Gladys is worried that he might have to compete with more sport organizations requesting grants and other formal funding such as his organization relies on. He should have been asked to abstain from the first vote with his direct conflict of interest competing for the same funding dollars. Apparently the mayor oversaw that fact although it was brought to the council's attention beforehand.
- Yes, the City has the CGC, and yes, soccer has to pay to rent the field-house and the flexi-hall. Soccer and Athletics would also need to pay to use the outdoor facility. Whitehorse Minor Soccer pays approximately $32,000 every winter to rent the indoor facilities at the CGC, making it one of (or perhaps the largest) sport organization in the Territory. Yet, still the mayor thinks there is no support from the users?
-It's shameful for the Mayor to disregard the petition that was presented in support of the complex, the public turn out for the meetings, the picketing sign holders outside City Hall, the numerous letters of support and emails. There were no packed chambers in opposition to the complex, no picketers in front of city hall against the project, and there was no petition presented to stopping the project.
If people want to object this complex then they should educate themselves about the project and its' expenses, before the spout off. I have little respect for those who verbalize their uneducated opinions and I'm so tired of reading the endless lack of knowledge partnered with general discontent.
Up 56 Down 14
Bucky Dent on Dec 15, 2015 at 6:44 pm
Now will Mr. Gaw please stop wasting everyone's time on this most ridiculous proposal and be happy with being spoiled for soccer facilities as it is. This 2 month season for the kids is so short that all the fields should be utilized to their fullest which I understand is nowhere near the case now.
As a matter of interest regarding the astro turf surface for playing on giving an earlier season and all. (The pros don't like the artificial surfaces because they cause all sorts of injuries in the way of cuts, burns, joint jams, etc.)
I would like to thank Mr. Gladish for his informed opinion on what we would be creating for ourselves into in the way of a tax orphan.
Thanks to the persons who voted against this farce, you will be remembered.
Merry Xmas!
Up 41 Down 14
BnR on Dec 15, 2015 at 5:47 pm
To wondering
Is that the best argument and compassion you can come up with? A paved 5km loop vs a multi million dollar facility? I think Mr Gladish has voiced a lot of very valid concerns on this project. Too bad we lost him as a councilor. However, we did get Samson.
Here's some food for thought. How many Olympic athletes has the Yukon produced? Quite a few considering the size of our home. What sports? Cross country skiing and cycling of all things. How many even nationally ranked soccer players and track and field athletes have we produced? Exactly. And not to say that we shouldn't encourage these spots, but to throw this kind of money at facilities that we don't need seems pretty frivolous. Geez, maybe we should have a heated velodrome too because we have produced an Olympic cyclist, right?
Spend the money that YG has earmarked for the construction of the facility on fixing and maintaining the grass pitches we have. You can kill a lot of gophers for $5,000,000.00.
Out of curiosity, I wonder how many artificial soccer pitches they have in Vancouver? A city where they can play soccer year round.
Up 146 Down 25
north_of_60 on Dec 15, 2015 at 4:21 pm
"Vote will disappoint children" Oh really? C'est dommage.
At some point they will be disappointed that Santa Claus isn't real too.
Perhaps if parents didn't give their children unrealistic expectations, then they might not grow up to be such narrow-minded, entitlement-junkie, elitists.
Up 146 Down 20
It's over, deal with it. on Dec 15, 2015 at 4:13 pm
"The vote by council, Zazula said, means there are going to be a lot of disappointed kids in the city now."
Good. Kids should learn early that you don't get everything you want, when you want in life. Some things you have to work for. Some things are simply unattainable.
We have a year round pitch at CGC, a dozen school gyms and outdoor fields. I suggest minor soccer strike a work party this spring of parents and players and fix up those alleged gopher hole riddled fields.
A 5-8 Million dollar single use facility is insane.
Up 14 Down 121
Snaky on Dec 15, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Pretty low Jocelyn. Nice. Our kids deserve not breaking an ankle in a gopher hole.
Up 118 Down 15
Lost in the Yukon on Dec 15, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Is the Mayor the Grinch that stole Christmas? Has the Mayor and Council condemned the youth in Whitehorse to lives of crime, drug abuse and poverty?
I think not.
Have certain parties promoted this for their own selfish gain? Absolutely.
Maybe the Pharmacist will do the responsible thing and tell the Minister of Education to keep the already existing facilities in proper shape. In other words do what they are already paid to do.
Meanwhile, the Pharmacist and his boy Minister Dixon can get Yukon Housing to deal with the real homeless issue in Whitehorse. After they have $6,000,000 of tax payer money burning a hole in their pocket.
Up 20 Down 108
wondering on Dec 15, 2015 at 2:50 pm
So I am wondering if COW approved the Whs Cross Country ski club's request to pave a trail at Mt Mac for roller skiing. Did the public have lots of consultation about this Mr. Gladish? I don't think so. Their paved trail is only going to benefit one group: the skiers. This would have benefited multiple groups with sh***ty fields to use for games.. pathetic.
Up 108 Down 14
June Jackson on Dec 15, 2015 at 2:40 pm
"While the approximately 1,500 soccer players would be the prime users," Where did Mr. Stockdale get this number? I don't believe it unless 1,350 of them are under 10 years of age, and I have attended their soccer games at the college and the CGC.
“Please don’t look this gift horse in the mouth,” he said. Mr. Stockdale is going to fund this out of his pocket? That is the only way this is a gift. If he is talking about the $8 million dollars from the Territorial Government.. that is not a gift..that's my tax money. That money came from everyone in Canada. It's not free.
Zebruck acknowledged his sport would not be a user.
However, he argued anything that helps grow sporting activities in the city helps the community as a whole. As a non-profit with no ties to the complex, his group supports it fully, he said noting that if it’s run properly, it wouldn’t cost the city anything. Thank you for your opinion Mr. Zebruck, how do you figure it would not cost the City anything? First thing, no one will want to pay taxes on it and will be asking for a grant in lieu of..the land will buckle leaving uneven tracks, pot holes, ruts and cracks.. and on and on.. but.. you tell me why it won't cost the city any money?
Tony Gaw, who heads up the sports association, also addressed council.
He pointed out the cost of the project has gone down to $5.5 million, with the operating numbers confirmed by an Outside consultant. The facility has little maintenance nor irrigation, heating and so on." Drainage is a big issue in WhistleBend. You will not be able to keep that land flat...
Thanks to those members of council who voted it down.. I'll remember you at election time..and to those of you who voted for it.. I'll remember you too. Goodbye Sampson.