Photo by Vince Fedoroff
EXPLAINING THE PLANS – Tony Gaw (left) and Steve Bartsch address city council about the new sports complex Monday evening.
Photo by Vince Fedoroff
EXPLAINING THE PLANS – Tony Gaw (left) and Steve Bartsch address city council about the new sports complex Monday evening.
A rezoning application is leaving city council members wondering if municipal taxpayers could some day be on the hook for the operating costs of a proposed outdoor sports complex.
A rezoning application is leaving city council members wondering if municipal taxpayers could some day be on the hook for the operating costs of a proposed outdoor sports complex.
It would feature a rubberized running track and at least two artificial turf soccer pitches, to begin with.
Tony Gaw, who heads up the Yukon Outdoor Sports Complex Association, and Steve Bartsch of Associated Engineering (contracted to work on the project) brought forward the plans for the facility to council on Monday evening.
The building of the structure over 7.17 hectares of land is a Yukon government project, which the association would lease and manage after it’s opened.
The rezoning application would see four areas that were zoned for a variety of residential homes changed to a parks and recreation zone. An environmental protection lot and public service lot would also be rezoned for parks and recreation for the proposed facility.
The area off Casca Boulevard near Whistle Bend Way was selected due to its proximity to the public service lot – envisioned as a site for a new high school, where the two roads meet.
As Gaw told council, the possibility of an outdoor sports complex has been talked about for about five years, coming out of a “lack of appropriate facilities” for local soccer players.
While a number of school fields in town are used for outdoor practise, Gaw pointed out they are often in poor shape and used by many people (including dog owners who leave dog feces there that have to be cleaned up by others). That doesn’t lend itself to athlete development, he said.
A facility that has artificial turf means the season could start earlier. (Currently, the start of the minor soccer season is dependent on when the fields thaw, and artificial turf generally allows for an earlier start.)
It would also mean some fields in the city could be left alone for a season to re-grow and recoup from heavy use.
While the proposal started with a desire to have better outdoor soccer facilities, when F.H. Collins Secondary School lost its running track (though a smaller one was built in a lower field) due to the construction of the new school, it prompted discussions on a new outdoor track.
Vanier Catholic and Porter Creek Secondary Schools were looked at in exploring where a new track could go, but neither has enough space, Gaw said.
He went on to point out the F.H. Collins track was a gravel-type surface, which left athletes who went Outside to competition or to attend university not accustomed to the rubberized track that’s common elsewhere.
It’s time Whitehorse and the Yukon have facilities that lend themselves to better athlete development, he argued.
Thus a rubberized outdoor track is now included in the plans for the Whistle Bend facility, with interest from a number of groups in future phases of the facility.
An initial Community Development Fund grant was provided by the Yukon government for the group to have a conceptual design for the facility. Associated Engineering has now been awarded the contract on the detailed design for the first phase of the facility.
Along with the soccer pitches and running track, the first phase would also see bleachers, fencing, lighting, landscaping, access and infrastructure put in place.
The entire facility at full build-out is anticipated to cost upward of $8 million.
Gaw emphasized the need for better athletic facilities in the city, noting the numerous groups that could use the facility, including the possibility of aboriginal sporting practices or events in the winter when the fields aren’t being used for soccer. The proposal, however, raised many questions for council members.
Coun. Dave Stockdale was the first to wonder what it could mean down the road for operating costs, asking Gaw if the city could have some sort of guarantee the city wouldn’t be asked to fund the operations for the facility.
It’s estimated the facility would cost approximately $20,000 each year to operate, though council questioned those numbers, pointing to the need for staffing and other maintenance needs.
Mayor Dan Curtis was quick to point out that Stockdale’s proposal for a guarantee would be something for city manager Christine Smith to take to Yukon government officials. He also expressed the same concern during discussion.
Members also wondered aloud if the territory’s plan to build the facility meant there was some sort of new funding formula in place for recreational facilities.
And, what about the Yukon Horse and Rider Association, asked Coun. Jocelyn Curteanu, pointing out the development of Whistle Bend saw that group leave its recreational facility in the area. Now another outdoor recreational space is being built.
The possibility of the facility being used for major events like the Western Canada Summer Games had city council members questioning whether the city had been asked if it was interested in hosting such an event, which comes with a number of costs.
The benefit of having an outdoor facility in the neighbourhood next to a possible school was highlighted. Councillors, though, were quick to clarify the site would not be a neighbourhood field residents could just stop by on an afternoon to kick a ball around.
Rather, the facility would be secured and accessed by user groups and those paying to use it, a similar model to most indoor recreational facilities in town.
Pat Ross, the city’s planning manager, drew on his own experience, comparing it to the Canada Games Centre (CGC).
Like a number of parents who go to the CGC to watch their kids participate in soccer or other sports, he said, it becomes a bit of a community space and social time as parents sit together, chat and take in their kids’ games.
Coun. Betty Irwin said she “couldn’t help wondering” what the territory’s planned $8-million expenditure could mean for other communities if it was spent on recreational facilities throughout the territory which need work done.
While no financial obligation is being sought with the city being asked to change the zoning of the land, council members emphasized the “business plan” for the facility should be considered.
“It’s dreadfully important,” Irwin argued.
Coun. Mike Gladish (who has his own experiencing managing a recreational facility as his full-time job) wondered how the city could go ahead with zoning if members aren’t comfortable with the plan for how it will be run.
Curtis noted council members may be restricted by the Municipal Act in what they consider when looking at the zoning.
Council directed Smith to take its concerns and questions to territorial officials working on the project before it comes back for a vote on first reading next week.
If first reading is approved, residents will get a chance to let officials know what they think about it at a public hearing during the March 23 council meeting.
A report on the hearing would then come forward on April 7, and council would vote second and third readings at the April 13 council meeting.
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Comments (31)
Up 6 Down 8
Rubber Track Riders on Feb 21, 2015 at 7:31 pm
Yippee! A rubber track to ride our ATVs on, now if there was just some way to ride out of Riverdale.
I know, make the downriver paved addition on the Centennial bridge for ATVs and off road bikes, and the upstream bridge path for bicycles and pedestrians.
There, now everyone can share the taxpayer funded facilities.
Up 3 Down 3
north_of_60 on Feb 21, 2015 at 6:23 pm
8 Ignore rules 1-7 if it's for your friends, and award contracts without tendering if possible.
Up 25 Down 2
Lack of Experienced and Trained people in the Yukon Government in senior position on Feb 21, 2015 at 11:56 am
Any one with real project management training and experience know you need to scope out the soundness of any project before going ahead and you need to get public support behind it. All these mis-steps by the administration of the Yukon Government. Just to give $250,000 to the soccer association without some type of requirements is just bad business management. Standard funding program for any government are the following:
1 Purpose of the project.
2 Outline of the project.
3 How many people will benefit from the project.
4 Base cost estimates of the projects.
5 Land availability.
6 What are the sources of funds to fund this project, private first and then public. Private would be Canadian Tire, Walmart, super store, hotels changes just to name some. Go after the larger boozy suppliers or coke, on and on. Tims and Macd, on and on. All these big companies give away millions of dollars each year. I have not seen anyone that I know go after this funding.
7 Very important - does the public support the project. Get names of supporters.
This is a simple process the Yukon Government administration just cuts cheques and does not supply guide lines of what group have to do to qualify for money.
Up 70 Down 2
$69 million plus dollars in service contracts on Feb 20, 2015 at 10:23 am
This is senior administration doing this not the elected officials. In the Yukon the elected officials are not permitted to have anything to do with running the YTG operations. The elected officials have to do what they are told by the senior administration. Areas like Public Service Commission, Economic Development, Justice, Community Services are out of control.
For example Economic Development investing all that public funds into IT with out any public accounting for it.
It is not the political parties that control that $69 million but the administration. The $10 million to outside the cube is just one example.
Politicians are not permitted to ask question or do anything but do what the administration tells them to do.
If the administration does not like what the elected officials are doing they punch them by supplying them wrong information or bad advice.
This has gone on for years in some governments in Canada and nothing is being done about it. None of the three Yukon parties will touch the administration.
Why do you think there is so much waste of public funds and friends of friends getting contracts?
There is so much corruption in small parts of the administration. There is no independent over-site on public spending other than the auditor general which is really nothing.
Internal audit does not investigate real issues because if they did they have to expose the truth.
In the last 20 years there has been $100 of millions of public money invested without any up front analysis work done.
I looked at projects going back to the Watson Lake Saw Mill which was a money pit of waste. Even the re-opening of the mine in Faro was a waste of Federal and Yukon money.
No disrespect for communications and policy people in the Yukon Government but the Yukon needs more critical analysis people that have project management people so there is better analysis of projects by people with experience before investing the public funds.
Economic Development does not have anyone on staff with true project analysis training or experience.
You have the Public Service Commission headed by person who has a masters in economics.
There needs to be over-site on the actions of the administration for the Yukon Government.
Up 98 Down 0
Mismanagement of Public Funds on Feb 19, 2015 at 2:05 pm
Why was there a cost benefit completed first for $30,000? Then go public with the results for everyone to see.
Up 21 Down 5
Yukoner on Feb 19, 2015 at 1:49 pm
@ Brenda Dion - Well when you have one foot already in you don't give a s#$t how its paid for, right? It's nice that you are staying active but there are places to do that already and really what did they do before there were tracks everywhere? Must of all stayed home. Like the biking now a days - we have to drive our bikes first before we can ride them, right? What a crock.
Up 25 Down 1
Bud McGee on Feb 19, 2015 at 11:11 am
@ melba
Last year the Government of Yukon issued $69,546,818.29 in directly awarded service contracts. Those are contracts in which the government did not seek competing bids for the work.
Up 12 Down 24
Brenda Dion on Feb 18, 2015 at 10:24 pm
Well I'm really excited about the possibility of a new track. I'm just heading into my senior years and have started to get back into track and field. For the last three summers I have joined other Yukon seniors for running, jumping and throwing practices. It was hard last year when we lost the FH track but we made do with the grass. If you stopped by you would have seen seniors, youth and many in betweens working out and training together. My feeling is that when we invest in health, we invest in ourselves and in our community. The Canada Games Centre has become such a valuable resource for our community. I would expect this proposed complex will too. Thank you.
Up 13 Down 6
Josey Wales on Feb 18, 2015 at 7:55 pm
Folks there are some fantastic post regarding the epic stupidity and left lean so faaaar they have fallen...and don't want to get up.
We have had a loooong spell of civic stupidity with the chair warmers I call the nobles present and past say really starting during Mr. B's tenor, then the hairdresser and her crew...and here we are today..imagine eh?
They will do whatever they wish to with this town, our money, their time our dime....could give a rat's a** - I'm convinced that is how they think...assuming they do in fact think?
Their tough questions? Absolute smoke screen!
Up 11 Down 35
Mark Southerland on Feb 18, 2015 at 4:09 pm
Melba
With respect to your comments Get real! This territory is full of opportunities to run on trails."----- This will soon not be true for Whitehorse.
Parks and Recreation has developed plans to allow off road vehicles on the Rotary Centennial Bridge and Millennium Trail. They have ignored the Rotary Club and many other associations who promote active living involving no motors.
If council adopts this there will be an initiative to open up all trails in Whitehorse to motorized use which means running trails will not be as safe as they once were. According to one group, the city wants to link all areas of town so the Klondike snowmobilers can get around. The real deal is that the off road vehicle operators will have their way because they have support and they are well organized and a few stores in town back them and the council members who will run in the next territorial election.
Having said all this I want to ride my quad or trail bike to the new track.
Up 39 Down 5
north_of_60 on Feb 18, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Once again the taxpayers are paying for special facilities a few elites feel they are entitled to. NO, this is not acceptable.
Make users pay for specialized facilities most of us taxpayers don't want and will never use.
Up 20 Down 1
... and then there is the question on Feb 18, 2015 at 3:01 pm
of kick backs or special considerations.
Up 33 Down 9
Here you have COW mayor and council made up of NDP. Green, Liberals on Feb 18, 2015 at 2:44 pm
Here you have COW mayor and council made of NDP, Liberals and Green. They are example of what not to put in the Yukon Government. We thought the YP was bad, look at this group with $60 million dollar budget. Think what they would do with $1.3 billion dollars budget in the Yukon Government. Come and get your cheque.
Up 58 Down 5
melba on Feb 18, 2015 at 1:54 pm
I just did some googling. Brad Cathers already gave the Soccer Association $250,000 to do 'studies' with the following explanation:
"The investment is for preliminary work on the project, which will be managed by the Yukon Soccer Association. This will include site selection and surveying, preliminary and detailed engineering designs, geotechnical studies and construction cost estimates."
It is absolutely incredible how much money flows from the Yukon Government to Consultants in this town. Sometimes I wonder if these consultants and their friends come up with project ideas simply to access all that funding and to keep the millions flowing through their tills. Or maybe they just migrate up here because they know the livin' is easy.
I tried to see how much 'consulting' work is being paid for by the Yukon Government, but their site would not load and I could not access it. If anyone has the direct link, feel free to share it. Somebody in another story pointed out that Outside the Cube has received 10 million dollars from the Yukon Government since the 2007-2008 fiscal year. Averaging about $1.5 million per year in straight up 100% government funding.
There is quite the gravey train going on in this town.
Up 11 Down 5
Lost in the Yukon on Feb 18, 2015 at 1:13 pm
To Just Say'in ... you are right about the size of HSS and that costs just keep going up. But HSS is comprised of distinct program - Social Services and Health Services. It is on the Health Services side that costs have risen (2 new hospitals, expanded funding to Whitehorse General Hospital, and the list could go on). And then there is the "Clinical Services Plan" engineered by the Albertan DM that will result in significant cost increases. These are being paid for by attacking NGOs, restricting access to services by persons with disabilities to name but two.
Once again, I agree with you but you need to take a look at how Peter (the poor, the disabled and the homeless) is being robbed to pay Paul.
Up 53 Down 7
melba on Feb 18, 2015 at 11:55 am
Another 8 MILLION BUCKS!?! For an outdoor running track and a soccer field?
Get real! This territory is full of opportunities to run on trails. There is no way that the supposed 'need' to run on a rubberized track so you will be 'accustomed to it' when you fly south to participate in a competition, justifies an expenditure of 8 million dollars. What, maybe 11 kids a year will do this? Can I scream somewhere?
This is just so insane. Likewise the argument that astro turf means outdoor soccer can start earlier in the season! Why in the world did we spend the other millions on the indoor fields at the Canada Games Center.
Absolutely unbelievable. How did they even get the 'funding' for the engineering firm and the feasibility study.
Up 70 Down 3
John S went to Ontario to accept the sustainability award after all on Feb 18, 2015 at 11:46 am
John S went Ontario to accept the sustainability award after a lot COW residents did not want him to. This mayor and council does not answer emails from their voters. They make decisions on projects without having proper background work done on them.
Up 31 Down 2
Where is the Cost benefits Analysis of this project on Feb 18, 2015 at 10:04 am
Where is the cost benefit analysis of this project? You don't move a head with any project without a cost benefit analysis first. $8 million dollars can build a lot of homes.
Up 33 Down 3
Easy Money COW on Feb 18, 2015 at 9:44 am
COW is an easy place to get money.
Up 21 Down 8
Bud McGee on Feb 18, 2015 at 9:36 am
These are great questions that councillors are asking, and I applaud their efforts to quantify the true impacts of such a facility to Whitehorse taxpayers. However, I can't help but wonder where this level of scrutiny and introspection was when the City's building consolidation project received rubber-stamp approval. The City's buildings are projected to cost more $56 million over four years. I see a consistent double standard when it comes to the City and their own pet projects versus the endeavours of the Territorial Government or the private sector. I can't help but wonder if these blatantly obvious differences in how City Council champions certain projects over others are not politically motivated.
Dan Curtis ran territorially for the Liberals, so did Kirk Cameron, John Streicker was the Green Party federal candidate, and Dave Stockdale is affiliated with the NDP. Whitehorse's City Council is a left-wing council. They believe in tax and spend, nanny state government. So, I find City Council's objections to this project to be disingenuous to put it lightly. This is a council that has no problem approving big money projects with far-reaching tax implications with little or no debate, provided these are their projects. They will claim the morale high-ground, because their projects supposedly advance the quixotic pursuit of “sustainability”. When it comes to other projects, they receive different treatment. City Council has basically become a joke that no voter should take seriously.
Up 21 Down 6
Mark Southerland on Feb 18, 2015 at 9:27 am
I want this facility in Whitehorse but it should be closer to where I live. Lets put it on the old racetrack near Mary Lake so people in the southern sub-divisions are closer to it. Buses can run to it from Whistle Bend.
I want to be able to ride my snowmachine to it from my condo in town or from the house in Pine Ridge. Also I want to be able to ride my trail bike to the liquor store on city sidewalks to ensure my safety. I pay taxes after all and I need a facility like this for training in my retirement years. Who pays for it is not relevant as long as my taxes do not go up.
We need this facility!
Up 17 Down 0
Just Say'in on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:27 pm
@Lost in Yukon…..Cutting Social Services? Are you kidding? It is the biggest Dept. in YTG by far. More employees and way bigger budget then any other. Get your facts straight.
Up 31 Down 2
joella on Feb 17, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I thought natural grass pitches were better for soccer players.
Up 20 Down 8
Snow job on Feb 17, 2015 at 9:03 pm
Yukon Outdoor Sports Complex Association that doesn't even have the word soccer in it but it seems to be all about soccer. Is soccer a real sport in Canada? "including the possibility of aboriginal sporting practices or events in the winter when the fields aren’t being used for soccer" What aboriginal sporting practices and what other user groups? I have rarely seen anyone running on the old FH Collins running track but I'm sure one could be facilitated around one of the existing schools. For instance the elementary school on Nisutlin Dr. has all kinds of space where the field is now and south-west towards the dam where the abandoned field is. I think we've had enough snow this winter.
Up 25 Down 6
Josey Wales on Feb 17, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Folks more s**t for us to eat. The entire huge Yukon is an outdoor recreational facility.
Man, this is way past stupid, our sense of entitlements we are, as they say, "over represented" with.
Up 18 Down 25
Sports Fan on Feb 17, 2015 at 7:39 pm
Kids like sports. When kids play sports, they aren't breaking into cars or houses. We should build more parks and fields for kids to play sports on. It'll keep them out of government funded projects like jail. And a huge thank you to everyone who has taken the time to coach and volunteer in minor sports around whitehorse. Well Done!
Up 27 Down 5
Max Mack on Feb 17, 2015 at 6:19 pm
Let the user groups be responsible for paying for these facilities.
Do not pass the costs onto taxpayers or property owners through increased taxes, increased user fees, increased service fees, increased fines, whether by direct means or by indirect means (e.g. stealing capital reserves) or any other sneaky back-door funding mechanisms (ala Mount Sima, where both YTG and CoW are providing significant amounts of in-kind funding, and Mountain View Golf Course).
Up 19 Down 11
June Jackson on Feb 17, 2015 at 5:55 pm
There are so many southerners here, they think like southerners.. They don't care about cost because they think in terms of a million and a half tax payers to spread the bill around.. there are what? MAYBE 10,000 tax payers in Whitehorse. We carry the load for the entire fiscal mismanagement of the last 3 councils. I only know of 1 taxpayer who thought Whistle Bend was a good idea, and he has since changed his mind. I note that both municipal and territorial governments keep trying to justify WB by parking big ticket suggestions in and around WB. The dead horse that is WB has to be blamed on Buckway.. but to keep beating said horse can go directly to Curtis and council..not to mention YTGs 300 bed monstrosity.
An outdoor sports track..soccer, etc. Where were you guys this winter? We had 2 nice weeks in January and its sucked since, so its not even a year round facility? If it has a roof and heat..its not an outdoor track.. this really sounds like a SIMA wanna-be looking for handouts. Maybe Sports Yukon can fund it.. they had over 70K for SIMA.
Up 54 Down 16
Yukoner on Feb 17, 2015 at 4:24 pm
If you want world class facilities move to where they are. Don't expect the tax payer to build them for you. ME ME ME that's all you ever here from these groups drop D
Up 38 Down 13
Yukoner on Feb 17, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Just another bunch of people that only care about their needs and what they want. Down the road who cares how it gets paid for. As long as they get what they want now. F54K the rest of us, right? This s%$t is getting old and so is this counsel and mayor.
Up 36 Down 18
Lost in the Yukon on Feb 17, 2015 at 3:38 pm
One of many big ticket funding sprees by the Pasloski Government to come in a run up to an election ... meanwhile services to the poor, disabled and disadvantaged in the community are being curtailed or eliminated. But then again to paraphrase one Social Service Director "they don't vote".