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Rick Karp and NDP MLA Kevin Barr

‘No one makes minimum wage': chamber

NDP MLA Kevin Barr is calling on the Yukon government to immediately raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour.

By Whitehorse Star on March 27, 2012

NDP MLA Kevin Barr is calling on the Yukon government to immediately raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour.

The government has announced the minimum wage rate will rise from $9 per hour to $9.27 on April 1, due to a three-per-cent rise in the Consumer Price Index.

The Employment Standards Board, which began a review in December 2011, has yet to conclude and make a recommendation on change.

"We really hope that the board will recommend an increase above 27 cents,” Barr said Monday.

"$9.27 an hour is too low to live on in the Yukon with the high cost of housing and other amenities. $9.27 is not a living wage in Yukon or anywhere in Canada.”

A $9.27 minimum wage would still leave the territory at the bottom of the pack in Canada, Barr noted.

"We currently have the lowest minimum wage of all the northern territories,” he said.

"We have (the) lowest rate in the North, the West, the East, and the South. Six provinces and territories are at $10 or more,” said Barr.

Despite Premier Darrell Pasloski's suggestions of a prosperous economic period, Barr said, the government has done little to see benefits trickle down to the working poor.

It's difficult to see how 27 extra cents per hour contributes to the government's commitment to implement a comprehensive social inclusion strategy, said Barr.

However, Rick Karp, president of the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce, brings a different perspective to the issue.

"No one makes minimum wage,” Karp told the Star this morning.

"I do not know of one business in town that actually pays it. Wages here for inexperienced workers generally start at between $10.50 and $11.50 per hour.”

Many factors go into setting the minimum wage, he added.

"There are lots of things that even businesses do not understand about the minimum wage,

"For instance, it was never meant to be a social safety net, which we have, in the form of social assistance and social insurance. We have a very generous social safety net in the Yukon.

"It is meant to be a way for students and those who do not have experience to lay the groundwork for future employment,” said the long-time small business owner.

"People working and living off minimum wage in the territory is miniscule.”

A more accurate assessment comes from looking at the weekly wage of workers, Karp added. The Yukon is the second or third highest in the country.

"Minimum wage is for people who need experience in the job market,” he said.

"The catch-22 is that you find a great job and you'll get great experience from it, but you can't get it without experience.

"There is a certain morality to it, in that if businesses can hire someone for next to nothing, they are going to do it because it's good for them.

"So, there is a moral responsibility to have a minimum wage and it has to be determined by government, not business, but it also has to be based on what is reasonable for workers and industry.”

Karp said he is more concerned about the working poor, and about people who are working and trying to find housing.

"Let's look at them and let's get some affordable housing on the market,” Karp urged.

"That's what we should be focusing on.”

The Department of Education and the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce have created a business training fund for workers in the Yukon to obtain training to get jobs, where training is not already provided, the chamber president noted.

"The program is only three weeks old, and it has already seen seven or eight applicants and four programs have been funded,” he said.

"We do not need to keep increasing minimum wage; we need to keep training our local population, to train them to rise up in business.

"The correct model is to have a minimum wage, created by government where needs are established and a responsible wage is determined, while understanding all of the issues involved,” Karp added.

The Yukon nominee program, under which workers are imported to the territory, has driven up the starting wage, so local businesses really aren't looking at minimum wage anymore,” Karp said.

Comments (21)

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wundering on Apr 5, 2012 at 8:24 am

Who pays Karps salary at the Chamber of Commerce?

Is it YTG?

Business to cheap to pay it's mouthpiece?

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shake all your heads on Apr 4, 2012 at 7:49 am

All the new and improved minimum wage will do is ensure our young people have an even rougher time getting any job experience. The boomers and older are already raping the country's wealth at the expense of the generations to follow - kids in school right now will barely have a chance as it is - this will only add to the burden.

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Francias Pillman on Apr 3, 2012 at 8:03 am

Hey matt. What about someone who lost their job late in life? And maybe they are on a small pension? And maybe a minimum wage job is all they can handle? I'm tired of people like you and rick karp who won't be happy until everyone is making $1 an hour. I bet you have posters in your room of kevin o'leary. He hates unions as I assume you do to. While society cheers for the middle class to disappear and unions to be busted, please shake your head. The average person is not to blame. It's people like kevin o'leary and those criminals destroying alot of peoples wealth with their scams and tricks. Look at Greece. The average person blames lazy Greeks. Oh how wrong you are. Next time do some real research before you open your mouth. The bankers destroyed Greece. Spain is next. Do you care? Nope, it's the people asking for an extra dollar or 2 so they can buy food. But you would rather attack them and tell them to suck it up or starve, while you close your eyes to the people who are stealing their money. And yes, some businesses are just as bad as bankers so it really doesn't matter. When I look at kevin o'leary I see rick karp.

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MATT on Apr 2, 2012 at 6:53 am

MIN. WAGE IS FOR PEOPLE STARTING OUT IN THE WORK FORCE, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOW MAKING A LIVING AND WORKING FOR MIN. WAGE SHOULD HAVE WEIGHTED THEIR OPTIONS BETTER WHEN THEY WERE YOUNGER. BETTER CHOICES COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THAT WOULD GET THEM A JOB THAT PAYS BETTER. LIFE IS ABOUT CHOICES, MAKE SMART ONES AND EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE!

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Any-Mouse on Apr 2, 2012 at 4:12 am

Used to be (way long ago) that people said 25% of your income goes to your housing costs. (now it's more like 50%).

But we'll stay with 25%, unrealistic as it is.

Minimum wage = $9.27/hr. * 40 hr/wk = $370.08/wk * 50wk/yr = $18,540/annum.

$18,540/12 months = $1545/mo.

25% of $1545 is $386.25

Avg. median rent for 1 bedroom is $800/mo according to COW last week on CBC news.

Meaning two income earners have to share a 1 bedroom to pay the bills on minimum wage. One gets the bedroom - one gets the living room.

Avg. (older) 3 bedroom (as quoted by Akimajuktuq) $1,500.

$1,500 / 3 income earners = $500 each. (or 32.4% of your minimum wage income)

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Employers are not social workers on Apr 2, 2012 at 3:25 am

There seems to be a popular opinion that employers should just suck it up and pay more because it is the right thing to do. Have we forgotten that they are trading money for work?

Remember, the minimum wage means all kids entering the workforce will get it, because you can't discriminate on the basis of age, and all of the people coming to Yukon who are just learning English will get it too.

You also can't arbitrarily decide that the wage should be able to feed a family of 4, because we have a principle of equal work for equal value. It isn't about your personal circumstances.

Is there any benefit to employers for increasing wages? Should they take the hit for teaching workers all of their fundamental skills including basic English?

Don't forget - as mentioned above - increased wages means increased costs, which will likely negate the $0.75 wage increase. Inflating the economy is not the answer.

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Michael Tillmann on Mar 30, 2012 at 11:28 am

If the majority of employers pay people $10.50 or $11.00/hour anyways, then what's the big objection to raising the minimum wage? It will only effect a minority of businesses in that case. Or are you saying that this minority of businesses can't afford a $1.00/hour increase in wages?

Perhaps that's the case. However, I find employers often cry "poverty" and say they can't afford things when, in reality, they can.. it just requires them readjusting priorities and spending less in other areas.

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Patrick on Mar 30, 2012 at 8:26 am

"No one makes minimum wage,” Karp told the Star this morning.

Apparently Mr. Karp was wrong and he should correct his mistake and perhaps apologize.

The middle class is under fire by corporations and government. What seems to be forgotten when private industry creates jobs is that many jobs simply do not pay enough for people to get ahead.

When you consider minimum wage, its even worse- its only provides a transition wage but unfortunately, people are caught in these jobs and are not transitioning to better employment opportunities.

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Mike Hawk on Mar 30, 2012 at 4:28 am

Maybe Rick Karp should set an example and get his generous salary reduced to minimum wage so he can experience first hand just how far that gets him!

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Guncache on Mar 30, 2012 at 12:48 am

Don't worry about the wage. The NDP dreams up social programs and would be more than happy to give you a hug and cut you a cheque.

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Wayne on Mar 30, 2012 at 12:04 am

It is not higher minimum labour costs that drive prices up. It is the labour costs at the higher end of the wage scale that do. As is the case now, when 60-plus percent of workers (i.e. YTG, CoW, Gov't. of Canada) are earning generous wages and benefits, they are capable of paying, will, and do pay more. Keep the costs of the workers earning much more than minimum lower, and prices will stay the same, or fall.

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Joel on Mar 29, 2012 at 2:57 am

Anonymous, $10 is not minimum wage so you are agreeing with Rick. Shoppers Drug Mart pays most if not all of its full time employees more than minimum wage as well. No offence to anyone that works at the theatre, but I wouldn't currently call that a career move to get rich off of.

Let's turn this around and say the minimum wage goes up to $20 since the price of homes is so high and everyone should be able to own a large Yukon home. Where do you believe that money is going to come from to pay these people? Will prices go up to reflect the increased costs? Will service drop because of that? Will businesses close shop? Will less businesses move into town?

A lot of people seem to think retailers are making piles of money...they aren't. Some are and they normally pay higher wages, the ones that pay lower are the ones that don't make that much. When I was working in retail, the margins were slim and everyone talked about the good old days of larger margins so you could pay/make a decent wage.

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Cecil on Mar 28, 2012 at 9:00 am

Minimum wage needs to keep pace with the cost of living even when the economy is robust. Eventually, commodity prices will fall and the local economy will tank and then is when service and entry level workers will need that wage protection.

Of note most of those min wage jobs are staffed by immigrant workers who are contractually bound under threat of deportation.

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Yukoner on Mar 28, 2012 at 6:50 am

Gross Pay @ $10.50/hr $1,750.00

Federal Withholding $233.18

Provincial Withholding $109.44

Canada Pension Plan $72.19

Employment Insurance $32.03

Net Pay $1,303.16

Food/supplies - $250 (10% discount at work?)

Rent - $800 (Still have housing/rental issues)

Clothing - $50

Transportation - $100 (on the bus)

Ph/Internet - $100

$3.16 for emergencies.

Who needs to save money, when you can live hand to mouth - pay cheque to pay cheque.

Superstore, Walmart and Shoppers (all with drug stores) can't afford to have a decent minimum wage chipping away at the big shareholders, down south.

And that's OK, because we like the long lineups at the till, in the summer, when better jobs come along, attracting many of these underpaid employees. (remember the Superstore, summer, grocery lineups!)

What does it cost to recruit and train. Maybe a $15/hour wage is not out of line, if it stimulates long term employment commitments. There surely must be a diminishing return point that is higher than $10.50/hr, when all factors are weighed.

I get your point, Rick, but the cost of living in Whitehorse is not in line with $10.50 or $11/hr.

Apart from that, housing/land is so inflated that the politicians have painted themselves into a corner. This problem won't be fixed in a hurry- can't be fixed in a hurry without hitting homeowner equity. So rent is really out of line for a low wage worker.

Banks' lending ratio would disqualify all of these low wage workers, unless they team up in 3s.

Anyway, what do you earn? What do our politicians make for all the good work they doing, lately?

Doesn't it make more sense to treat the people who serve us, day after day, with some appreciation by pushing the "poverty" wage up to a minimum wage that makes sense in our economy? The money flows through the economy, back to the stores etc - the economics of it all, runs deep - you should and do know this, Rick.

I do get your point, most employers pay more than minimum wage - the issues is, it's still not enough.

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people don't get it on Mar 28, 2012 at 5:33 am

Anti-poverty groups have been advocating for a $10 minimum wage since the early '80's. It is meaningless. We need to recognize that if businesses pay more for their labour, they will charge more for their goods and services. I can afford for my grocery bill to go up, but the person making the new minimum wage likely cannot. It will be like a hamster wheel of cause and effect.

We need to find other ways to address poverty - and we need to be tougher on people who are not accountable for their habits, lifestyles and choices.

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neil on Mar 28, 2012 at 5:31 am

I get the impression that anyone with experience is making more than min. wage in Yukon, those without experience (younger people entering the market for the first time) often make min. wage at drug stores, grocery stores and theatres.

I made min. wage when I started pushing shopping carts, I worked hard and quickly didn't make min. wage anymore. Karps point is that the vast majority of people are already making well above min. wage and so spending time debating a change to the min. wage doesn't actually address the issues that make living in Whitehorse increasingly unaffordable for people making $11 or $14 dollars an hour.

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Tony Carson on Mar 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm

What we really need, Karpes is saying, is for business to pay as little as they can for labour and for governments to build subsidized housing to keep these impoverished workers off the streets.

And, oh ya, when this strategy doesn't work ship workers in from foreign countries under shameless rules that take advantage of the desperate.

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smittypoo76 on Mar 27, 2012 at 10:03 am

Rick Karp - theatres pay minimum wage, then again, I don't expect you to actually check your facts before you state them,

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Yukoner 2009 on Mar 27, 2012 at 9:02 am

The Chamber is flat out lying or is completely disconnected from reality. My kid works at Shoppers Drug Mart and makes minimum wage.

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anonymous on Mar 27, 2012 at 8:17 am

Well, Rick Karp, tell all that to the people who work at Superstore and try to make a living. They start out at 10.00 an hour, not 10.50 - 11.50. Get your head out of your own money pile and see how other people actually live. You are arrogant. So happy for you that you are the president of a company. Not everyone is as fortunate in life as you are to be highly trained (if you even are) and have a high paying job.

Raising the minimum wage to 10.00 is pointless. It needs to be higher so people can live and even if stores pay that they give out minimal hours so the people who work there cannot survive. Whitehorse is going down the toilet. All the people who have money don't notice the people who don't and how hard it is for them.

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Any-Mouse on Mar 27, 2012 at 7:58 am

either way, lifting minimum wage will probably have having housing/renting to go up as well.

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