New proposal could save homeowners $100,000, First Nation suggests
The Kwanlin Dun First Nation is moving into the housing market as part of its strategy to generate revenue, says Alicia Vance, a councillor with the First Nation.
The Kwanlin Dun First Nation is moving into the housing market as part of its strategy to generate revenue, says Alicia Vance, a councillor with the First Nation.
Vance explained Tuesday that by providing housing opportunities, the First Nation generates income from primarily leasing the land and increased revenue from an income tax agreement it has with Ottawa.
When Yukoners reside on aboriginal settlement land, a portion of the income tax paid by the residents – aboriginal or non-aboriginal – is returned to the First Nation, Vance explained.
She said the First Nation is currently moving forward with five single-family lots it owns in Porter Creek, three of which are on Grove Street, one on Walnut Crescent and another on Pine Street.
Construction of houses on two of the three Grove Street lots should be complete and ready for the market by the end of the year, she said.
Vance explained under the land lease arrangement, potential buyers purchase the home under a typical mortgage agreement through the bank and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp.
There is, however, no transfer of title to the land, but rather a long-term, transferrable lease is struck which guarantees the homeowner security of occupancy provided the terms of the lease are fulfilled, she said.
The Kwanlin Dun First Nation estimates a lease arrangement will save the homeowner up to $100,000, because the land is leased and not included in a long-term mortgage.
Vance explained the lease will cost about two or three per cent of the value of the home per year, or less than it would if it were included in the higher rate for mortgages.
Owning the home but not the land is a similar concept to a condominium arrangement, says a press release issued by Kwanlin Dun following a meeting last week to update members about economic development strategies.
"Living on KDFN lands in the City of Whitehorse potentially reduces the cost of a home by $100,000 because the lot is leased,” says the release.
"With housing prices at record highs for the city, this could significantly assist with the current housing problem.” (The average price of a Whitehorse home is just under $400,000.)
Vance confirmed the Kwanlin Dun is aiming in the $200,000 to $300,000 price range for the cost of the houses.
In addition to the five Porter Creek lots, and another downtown lot on Jarvis Street, the First Nation has three larger residential projects in its economic development portfolio, Vance explained.
Kwanlin Dun, she added, is looking for a contractor to bring on 85-lots next to the existing McIntyre subdivision, lots which were in the original subdivision design and are already serviced.
There is also an unserviced parcel of land abutting Copper Ridge large enough to accommodate 185 lots, Vance pointed out.
She said another parcel in Valleyview is suited for a condominium development.
Also noted at last week's meeting to discuss the potential for generating revenue was this September's completion of the new waterfront cultural centre which will house the Whitehorse Public Library.
It was also pointed out that Kwanlin Dun started developing its McLean Lake gravel quarry on August 1.
Under the provisions of the aboriginal land claim settlements in the Yukon, First Nations negotiated the right to receive a portion of income tax by residents living on settlement land.
Though the numbers are different, the formula is similar to the arrangement which provides the Yukon government with its base funding.
Ottawa reimburses the territory 45 per cent of the income tax paid by each Yukoner, in addition to other arrangements in the annual financial transfer agreement to provide for health care and the like.
Vance said the self-government agreement states that Kwanlin Dun will currently receive 75 per cent of the income tax paid by residents on settlement land. That percentage will increase to 95 in 2015.
By Chuck Tobin
Star Reporter
Comments (19)
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Home Owner on First Nation's Leased Land on Aug 23, 2011 at 9:23 am
As a home owner on First Nation's Land, please be aware that currently no bank in Whitehorse, at present, will provide a buyer with a mortgage for purchase of a house on First Nation's Land. I have had a legal offers to purchase my house but my potential buyers cannot secure a mortgage because the house is on First Nation's Land.
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John KNops on Aug 23, 2011 at 6:26 am
Come on everybody. Let's get serious and support low income housing. Just because KDFN wants to rent land we criticise them but when anyone else opens up a trailer park we say "wonderful". The only difference here is that the rent for the trailer lots seem to be a bit high and the trailers are not concentrated in one area.
Would anyone want to put up a house fixed to the land on these rentals? Don't be silly. Remember Tsawassan in BC and Brag Creek in Alberta?
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bobby bitman on Aug 21, 2011 at 1:55 am
'As the First Nation generates their own source income, this income will be deducted from their transfer payments.'
Thank you for explaining this.
I have a few further questions.
Is the current transfer payment reduced by the entire 75%, then 95% when the FN starts to collect the income taxes paid by the residents of these lots?
What happens if the income through this program exceeds the federal money currently sent to the FN? Is there a limit to how much income tax they can take out of the Canadian system?
How is this anything more than a shell game to keep Canadian tax payer money forwarded to FN, rather than actually requiring FN's to generate their own income as other Canadians do? It seems at best to be a zero sum game where FN continue to receive their income through transfers from Ottawa, rather than meeting the original objective of requiring FN's to generate their own income from their own work and assets one day as other Canadians do. The FN gets their development costs through the lease agreement - as normal developers would through the sale of the land. Then gets to capture the income tax of whoever lives there for ever more. That is not 'earning your own income' in the real world, that is simply continuing to collect from the Canadian tax payer.
This formula is not based in reality in terms of what any other business would receive in return for developing and selling or renting out one lot. If for instance two government workers each earning $90,000 per year and paying $22,000 per year in taxes lived there, the FN would receive $8,000 a year for the land, plus $44,000 per year for providing ONE LOT! To compare that with a sale, in the course of a 25 year mortgage, at these rates the Canadian tax payer has paid over one million dollars for a one hundred thousand dollar lot! In terms of a rental, that's a $52,000 a year pad fee, (over $4,200 a month)!
All this revenue is obtained through tax being transferred to the FN, and not forward to general revenue to pay for road, schools, medical care, pensions and so on. So it is not, 'freeing up money' due to transfer payments that currently exist being reduced, as per the intent of the settlements.
One more question, what happens when those home owners retire, lose their job or for some other reason stop paying taxes? Does the FN revert to collecting revenue from Canadian tax payers through the original method?
Thanks in advance for your answer to these questions. I'd like to know if the spirit of self sufficiency is actually being adhered to, or if this is just a loop hole to continue to direct Canadian tax money to funding FN's, despite their having receiving settlements that were supposed to result in their paying their own bills.
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River Rat on Aug 20, 2011 at 4:19 am
It is somewhat funny looking at some of the comments of the "glass half empty" crowd.
There were a lot of folks around some 30 years ago that said Land Claims would never fly also. Look what we have today, three orders of government including First Nation Governments. It is here to stay and we all have to work together to find solutions to the mess we are in.
Let's be more positive folks!
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Chris Sorg on Aug 20, 2011 at 2:02 am
There was a time not long ago when most people said that nobody would buy a condominium in Whitehorse.
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Josey Wales on Aug 19, 2011 at 8:13 am
KDFN EcDev Thank you for your articulate response. I do understand that building social housing may not be your intent...I get that I do.
But I stand firm with this project AND CoW new neighborhood Whistle Bend.
As virtually always once the wheels of government get rolling on their ideas, they WILL never cease a project or admit when a project fails.
That said, in regards to your project first....I have had many many chats re: land up here in my time ALL lands not just FN's.
Not one single person I know would invest their money in a house on a rented lot within a FN's settlement...NOT ONE.
I hope not but if your vision is over estimated...the money will still flow to FN's as it always has.
Everybody involved would be to embarrassed to even consider it a write off...pump in the cash they will.
your government & mine too.
Whistle Bend, whilst not in your reply, please humor me.
I also feel that will be a complete flop too. If the yards are one square inch smaller that that other wee Toronto we call Copper Ridge, AND priced out of the world like we know they will be...it will fail.
After a wait this long to get land freed up, folks most likely wish not to hold a property mortgage of 180K for a wee slice of clay...complete with a ridiculous set of MUSTS from our inept council
Must build in 1 or 2 years...
Must have a porch...
Must build your home as a government fortress, building codes DO have a purpose.
Must get your home color approved...
If WB fails, they will to save face STUFF it full of social housing trust me.
Anyone else share this view?
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jack Malone on Aug 19, 2011 at 2:26 am
Okay - this is a new approach for Whitehorse and people are uninformed and jumping to goofy conclusions. The leases are acceptable to the bank. This approach is similar to the long-term leases issued on reserve lands in throughout Canada, including Vancouver. Go look at the subdivsions located on the reserves in Kamloops, Burrard, Kelowna, etc - nice family areas where primarily non-FN people reside with big investments/mortgages related to their homes. If you want to spend $130K for a lot or substantially less for 99 year lease on KDFN lands - go ahead - but I would rather save the $100K. On the income tax side, there is no difference to the taxpayer - you file the same tax return and pay the same amount of income tax.
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yukonlinda on Aug 19, 2011 at 12:30 am
It is common allover Canada to build on land leased from First Nations. Banks do not have a problem with this, generally the leases are 100 year leases so there aren't any concerns about losing your property.
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KDFN EcDev on Aug 18, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Josey Wales Response – Actually Josey, the intent is not to build social housing on KDFN Economic Development Lands. The goal is to build affordable housing for first time homeowners or people looking to start families that cannot afford the median price home of $400K in Whitehorse.
Our research at KDFN and in discussions with developers show that housing being developed for under $300K does not exist largely because of the cost of land. We have a lot of citizens in Whitehorse that should have moved into the next level of housing, but can't afford the prices. If KDFN can have good quality homes built below $300K, then these folks would be able to move up into the housing market freeing existing housing at the lower end of the markets.
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KDFN EcDev on Aug 18, 2011 at 7:07 pm
bobby bitman Response – As part of the Land Claims Agreements, the intent between the Crown and Yukon First Nations was always to have the First Nations become financially independent using their own resources. For KDFN, some of their lands are designed for Economic Development to generate own source revenue for the First Nation. As with all self-governed First Nations in the Yukon, KDFN currently receives transfer payments to run their government services. These transfer payments are from the Federal Government.
KDFN currently has an agreement from the crown where they get 75% of the federal income tax collected by the Crown from people living on their lands. After 2015, this amount goes to 95%. As the First Nation generates their own source income, this income will be deducted from their transfer payments. So the First Nation is using their lands to become self sufficient, and reduce their transfer payments from the federal government per the original land claims design.
If the First Nation is able to generate enough own source revenue then eventually the Federal Government will no longer have to provide transfer payments. Hence the Federal Government saves monies that can be used for schools, hospitals, etc. It should also be explained that KDFN is one of the largest landowners in Whitehorse and the pay property taxes on their lands. So the First Nation is also helping to pay for many of the services the city provides all citizens.
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KDFN EcDev on Aug 18, 2011 at 6:52 pm
STR Response – The author of this story was not correct. The lease is from 2% to 3% of the value of the lot, not the price of the home. So at 2% for a lot valued at $100,000 lot the annual lease payment would be $2,000 per year or $166.67 a month. Using a current interest rate for a 10-year loan of 6.790% the cost of owning the land would be $9,152.93 a year or a monthly mortgage payment just for the land of $762.74.
Leasing the land and owning the home on the land is very common in Canada and around the world. This is not for everyone and usually older people who can afford to purchase the land are not the target market. For first time homebuyers or people looking to reduce their costs to start a family, these are very good options. The average homeowner in Canada lives in a home for 9 years, before upgrading or downgrading.
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KDFN EcDev on Aug 18, 2011 at 6:40 pm
Thomas Brewer Response – For KDFN, their model is not the lease dollars, but the federal income tax dollars. The lease dollars are used for the infrastructure that supports the property, i.e. roads, sidewalks, sewer lines, water lines, communications, electricity.
The lease dollars go into a capital account to pay for this infrastructure, and also for replacement and repairs in the future. Eventually after 10 or 15 years the roads will have to be repaved, sewer lines repaired, etc, and this is what the lease monies are used for not revenue for the First Nation.
As with a mortgage being re-evaluated every 5 years and adjusted for current market conditions, the leases are also evaluated every 5 years to adjust for current land prices. If value of the land goes down, then the lease amount would go down accordingly too, or vice versa if prices go up. This design in the business model addresses the issues we have seen in British Columbia when the leases were renewed after 30 years, and adjusted for current market prices at that time, which is our $9,000 increase.
Originally it was determined that if Whitehorse had 200 lots available for development the cost of land would remain steady. In 2006 the city had 196 lots open for development, and that number has decreased steadily over the past years to a low of 31 lots in 2009. As the city is the sole provider of lots up to now, they have enjoyed a nice monopoly and seen land prices go from $30K to over 100K in the past six years.
Between Q3 of 2008 and Q1 of 2009, Whitehorse saw single family homes depreciate by roughly -$31K. Aside from this depreciation in 2008/2009 housing prices have been on a steady climb to over $400K this past year. With all the lots coming online in the near future we should start to see lot prices decrease.
Should, because the city still controls lot prices. When we look at the motor front lots downtown though, developers would say they are overpriced and the majority of these lots have not moved since the 2007 Winter Games. Yet the city refuses to lower the prices. Conceptually speaking though if they can't get $100K for the lots in Whistlebend, they will have to lower their prices.
So when we talk about the lease prices for KDFN lots, those should remain constant or potentially go lower over time. KDFN has to be cautious though, because they can't just dump lots into the market place and devalue everyone's homes. Hope this answers your concerns?
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Groucho d'North on Aug 18, 2011 at 9:40 am
As a follow-up to this story, I'd like to hear from a selection of bankers who approve mortgages and understand if they have any concerns or hesitations- cause nothing happens until the bank says okay - let's be real here
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ASDF on Aug 18, 2011 at 2:26 am
Maybe reduce the cost in the short term but even a $300000 dollar house at 2% would cost $0.6 million over the entire 100 years; would pay the $100000 "savings" of in ~17 years.
Now say you had a 0.5 million dollar house and it was actually 3%, paid off in 7 years....
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Puzzled? on Aug 17, 2011 at 10:25 pm
As a person in the market to buy a house in the next year, there is no way I would buy one of these houses no matter how nice it is. In order to spend between 200,000 and 300,000 to buy a house, I personally would want to own the land as well. Being unable to own the land means you are always under the control of others. I do see the appeal it might might have to others though. It's just not for me.
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Josey Wales on Aug 17, 2011 at 10:32 am
Gee...I hope KDFN was thinking ahead and hire heaps of people ready process those whom wish to start "moving forward" on "owning a house" on rented land?
Certain they may be dozens interested?
Is CoW/YG/KDFN building new green homes for all those poor tenters downtown?
I see row after row of "social housing" being erected in FN's lands in this grand vision.
Homes we all pay for, but only a few will be graced with yet another.
thumbs down if anyone is chomping at the bit to lease dirt to build a home on?
I can so see the PC governments actually participating in this silliness, being a PC'ed up an' all?
When that starts being discussed in the CoW or YG halls....I will be there to voice my non PCed version of said silliness.
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bobby bitman on Aug 17, 2011 at 10:12 am
So let me get this straight. In exchange for giving long term leases to non-status Canadians (Non-First Nations/Aboriginal); the Kwanlin Dun gets 95% of that person's tax return? Is that 95% of their federal tax, territorial tax, or both?
What is Kwanlin Dun expected to provide in terms of services for Canadians return for being the recipient of tax money which is intended to pay for our schools, hospitals, roads, policing, and everything else that the Canadian and the Yukon governments provide to their citizens? How is this arrangement sustainable if we are already in a deficit position as a country? Who came up with this deal? And what kind of person would willingly move on to these lands knowing they would have to hand over their entire tax contribution to a First Nation, or anyone else, for nothing in return rather than seeing that money go back into running our programs and our country?
I must be missing something. More details please.
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STR on Aug 17, 2011 at 9:10 am
ok so 2% lease per year, average house price is $400 thousand in Whitehorse, so take off $100 thousand for the land, $300 thousand*0.02=$6 thousand per year. 100/6 = 16.6. So in 17 years you've paid your $100000 for the land, and you get to do it for then next 83 years...
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Thomas Brewer on Aug 17, 2011 at 8:51 am
Good luck with this KDFN, for as soon as potential builders do their research and see what happened in Tsawwassen, I don't see many lining up to pay you $9000 a year lease on top of their mortgage for something that they won't have title to.