Photo by Whitehorse Star
Sally Wright and Coun. Kirk Cameron
Photo by Whitehorse Star
Sally Wright and Coun. Kirk Cameron
City council will eventually vote on first reading of a bylaw that would see the city sell land that's been seen as being expropriated.
City council will eventually vote on first reading of a bylaw that would see the city sell land that's been seen as being expropriated.
Before it does so, Mayor Dan Curtis has committed to meeting with both former and current residents near the area.
Curtis said Tuesday night he would hold a meeting about the proposed sale of 706 and 708 Ogilvie St. prior to council voting to move forward on the bylaw, but holding off on first reading.
Council is considering selling the two properties. They were sold back to the city in the 1970s as part of a program where properties along the escarpment were purchased by the city because they were viewed as being in "potential danger from slumping of the clay cliffs.”
Recent studies have shown the risk not to be as significant as once thought in certain areas, prompting city officials to bring forward the proposal to sell the Ogilvie Street lots, which are now listed as being a low risk.
As council heard Tuesday evening though, the potential sale is not sitting well with groups like the Escarpment Parks Society – nor some former residents of the area who felt like they had to sell their homes in the area.
Sally Wright, who is with the parks society, said the group had viewed the land "as a park in waiting.”
As land that was once expropriated for being seen unsafe, the group thought it wouldn't be sold. It had expected it could serve as a park or, perhaps, house an expansion of gardens for the Downtown Urban Gardeners Society.
"Our plans were fairly casual,” Wright said. The group didn't think there was any urgency to move ahead with the plans until now, she added.
She also noted the impact the expropriation had on residents of the area who were forced to sell their homes and relocate.
Pat Ellis, a local author and historian, was among those living in the escarpment area at the time and had to sell her land.
She was too upset about the situation to show up and speak out at Tuesday evening's meeting.
In a letter to the Star published Wednesday, Ellis wrote about having to sell her downtown home in the 1970s.
"We clearly understood it was an expropriation process and that it would take three years,” she wrote.
"With good will, I agreed to sell my little home and quickly buy another, as I had three young children to support and prices were rapidly increasing.”
Ellis went on to note the studies that were done on the area over the years.
She pointed out the reports did not suggest removing the buildings along the escarpment edge and pledging to deliver archived newspaper clippings to the mayor's office to showcase the history and provide a "clearer picture” of the situation.
While council voted to move forward with the bylaw Tuesday, members did not bring forward first reading on it or another bylaw to sell 67 Wann Rd.
As noted by Coun. Mike Gladish, there were a number of questions that had come up from council members about the sale of all the properties.
A council and senior management meeting has been scheduled for noon today to look at the issues around the land sale.
"The reason we're doing this is there are concerns,” Curtis said.
Coun. Kirk Cameron asked Wright if the parks society would be interested in meeting with council for a longer discussion on the matter. Wright said her group would be, but couldn't make today's lunch hour session.
"If we could have a meeting, that would be really good,” she said.
Her group did not receive a letter nor formal notification that the city was considering selling the lots, she argued.
A council and senior management meeting does not allow for a public discussion, though the public can observe the meeting.
Curtis then later committed to holding a separate meeting with the parks society, current and former residents of the area and others interested in the matter.
First reading is expected to come back to council at the Nov. 25 meeting, after today's council and senior management meeting and the public meeting.
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Comments (12)
Up 1 Down 0
Murray Munn on Nov 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm
Wow, two known outlaws on the same Web page--Mr. Wales & Mr. Hood! Thanks for the comments, Josey.
I've been here since 1999, from Regina ultimately, downtown but for a couple of awful rooms in Riverdale the first year. I did live on Squatter's Road in 1979 to 1980, when it was actual squatting, a time when I was the (the only) meter reader for Yukon Electrical. I mention this because you'd think I could recall what houses used to be where downtown, but I cannot. Was that empty foundation on the proposed site a house back then? Or how about that plateaux up above the Cook St. park? Were they shells then, as well? Surely I'd remember plodding up that little hill every month. I wish I'd taken more photos that initial year. I don't think I even have a photo of the little place that once was by the Black St. gully, Alain-the-acupuncturist's pad.
I do recall that some of the buildings up on the bluffs themselves, now just foundations, were still present. There was a large hangar like the ones on the highway side on the town side when I got my pilot's licence in 1980.
As for my historical basis, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I haven't researched when all these places were vacated, or by what means. Perhaps the new Whitehorse tome will have some info!
Up 3 Down 0
Josey Wales on Nov 15, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Murray...I could learn from you, as you ever so (IMHO) elegantly and tactfully made your points which have serious validity to them. I take solace in the history of your points too, as it clearly illustrates you're not as many a recent Toronto transplants whom knows what is best...for us.
You Robin Hooded the freaking thing, ever thought of running for a spot at the trough with the nobles? Oh yeah...your logic would not be a welcome attribute in the castle...never-mind. but thanks for the lesson!
Barry M...(I get it), you too have a strong and clear argument that folks should heed big time. I do not agree with your "end of story" point though.
Kinda like your being forced to the cliffs edge by a re-offending...oops rehabilitated felon, giving you the option of getting shot or jumping neither are good right? Pat losing her home? That is a shot if I ever heard one. Her hastily having to purchase another? Yup, you guessed right...that is the jumping part.
Now after years of pain (in my fictitious scenario to help illustrate) resulting in surviving her jump, she learns that .... fictitious felon should not have been there to force said stance resulting in her "choice" as the felon should have been still in jail.
Hang tight folks...please.
That said, she learns so so many years later it was all for not? kinda debunks you choice point I feel.
Never mind Sima folks with "disposable income", if you feel like contributing to this community? assuming she wishes to have help, why not fund raise for Pat so she can stick it to the sitting nobles?
Yes we would all pay in the end, but they WILL piss it away regardless. I feel making the nobles repatriate her with her YARD and compensate for the thievery of her life via her home...with kids living in it.
Successfully pulling that off would send a strong and stable message...that we are tired of their s--t in that castle and get your ducks in a row.
How was that folks? following Murray's lead, I figured I'd try being less of an asshole in making my points.
Demand it back Pat, there has to be at least one good lawyer waiting for a case as this?
Up 9 Down 7
Murray Munn on Nov 15, 2013 at 7:59 am
My feelings on the issue are that the mayor and council, and also past mayors and councils, conglomerately have worked to rid the bluffs/escarpment regions of 'dubious' structures on the pretense of concern for the residents' well-being, and are now suddenly discovering that they were pretty stable in the first place. I don't believe that testing methods have suddenly leapt ahead; I think they used any instruments to get rid of that shack that used to ... I don't know the street name for sure ... used to occupy the edge of the trees past the empty lot at the butt of ... Rogers Street? Ditto the trailer that is now an empty lot at the butt of Strickland, and there used to be another little house adjacent to it at the end of Alexander. One can see the workings of previous homes all along the bluffs where this development is set to go. Clearly this is gentrification, setting sights on greater taxation benefits and making the rules that allow that to happen.
I am for leaving this tiny little field just the way it is. I like to walk there, along the D.U.G.S. area and look up at the bluffs. Why should a tall structure block our view? I don't know why we need to have lawns and domestic shrubs, either. Park, schmark. These are not empty spaces. Birds nest and feed in these wildgrass spaces. This is the little slope where 2 winters ago I photographed the fox trying to elude the coyote, a dog bootie in the fox's mouth, which the News published.
The City is kicking out the hardscrabble homes to put in the richer folk. There is one house remaining on that entire block past the gardens; you may be sure that if it were not a normal-looking home, if it were one of those patchwork homes such as at the end of Hanson, it would be placarded and litigated away, and sold to a condo developer. I'm sure this is being planned. Whistle Bend didn't attract interest, ruining a great deal of habitat for the foreseeable, so let's see if folks will move here. They will, but it's a loss for the city of free zones, natural areas.
When the large developments along the waterfront went up over the past few years, a huge amount of wild land was lost. I'm talking Wal-Mart world, once wetlands and fields. I'm talking this false tourist area of the Hatch house, these ugly condos at Spook Creek, the large fairly attractive building too further south behind Boston Pizza, and now the area that is to house the workers' memorial. Every bit is that much grassland lost, that much gentrification and that much shafting of the poor. It's getting so you can't take a walk on the waterfront or up on the bluffs without someone watching you, suddenly proprietary of the public ground, from their glass eyrie. Leave some public land, and leave it untouched.
Up 10 Down 6
Barry M. on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:57 am
The land was bought and sold at market value of the day. Some people chose to sell...some didn't and are still there. End of Story.
The real story here is that you have a Councillor who lives near this area trying to set-up private council meetings with special interest groups to potentially explore the creation of a park and block out development. If Cameron is anti-development he should just say so and stop hiding behind his façade of inclusiveness.
Up 6 Down 6
Josey Wales on Nov 14, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Sally Wright, who is with the parks society, said the group had viewed the land "as a park in waiting.”
Seems the entire Yukon is a park in waiting does it not?
Hey council, how about a "moratorium" on meeting with societies in general.
Also seems to I, and hell, scads of folks, that you CoW need to get "our" house we let you work in...in far better order than it/we currently are.
Still have time and resources to meet with special interest groups whom feel they know what is best for us?
Does the ever coveted "land claim" concept not apply to Pat? I would say IMHO that based on how we reverse time daily up here, we sure as hell can be consistent with it. She was "bullied" into selling her home under FALSE pretenses...it should be fully returned to her. Complete with compensation for all the years of heartbreak...a public apology from our Mayor sitting...a public inquiry...etc.
Of course those things would never happen for this "land claim"...Pat, please heed my tactic...CLAIM it!
Claim it then shame them into the above.
Up 8 Down 3
Frank White on Nov 14, 2013 at 3:02 pm
This is unfortunate for the people who were forced to move years ago. It must be very difficult for them.
I hope the city responds in a sensitive way. The best way out of this is to consider selling the lots to residents displaced years ago, although this may present some significant issues. Another option is using the lots for greenspaces and parkland.
Lets have open discussions and full disclosure and hope the least offensive action is taken.
Up 13 Down 3
Doug Rutherford on Nov 14, 2013 at 12:42 pm
I can certainly understand why there would be a meeting with the previous occupants, who probably should be given the opportunity to repurchase the lots and the price for which they were expropriated.
Why, however, should it be so important to meet with current residents near the properties? This is simply adding two more residential properties in an area zoned as residential.
Up 8 Down 0
Marianne on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:24 am
Was the land sold to the city in the 1970s or reverted back to the Crown or YTG? I thought the escarpment lands were under YTG control until recently, when they were handed to the city -- in which case the city is rather hastily (in my opinion) contemplating selling land they only recently took over.
Michael, residents have been expressing interest in a park in that area for years. Unfortunately when the city doesn't have the will it's very difficult to move it forward, much more so now than when the escarpment parks that are there were installed, and they weren't exactly embraced by the city to begin with.
Pat Ellis, you should ask the city to photocopy your files, rather than hand over originals. Those are precious.
Up 4 Down 7
Atom on Nov 14, 2013 at 10:42 am
Parks are a bit late and to those in the area complaining can you say NIMBY.....things change...but rest assured the few being affected (what huge impact?) will create havoc with those in Council so anyone with legitimate business in City lands can expect a slower process. Oh and we can all probably expect more rules too...pat back of hand.
Pass the beer nuts
Up 13 Down 15
bobby bitman on Nov 14, 2013 at 9:28 am
I do not like this either. People buy in an area with the understanding that this is land that is never going to be developed, then the rules get changed. I fully support those who are fighting this change in zoning. It is just not fair to those living adjacent to the lots. This is just two lots, it's not going to have much of an impact on the availability of housing in Whitehorse, but it is going to have a huge impact on those existing homeowners who are adjacent to it.
I would be deeply upset if this happened to me. Likewise how the former residents of those lots must feel, seeing their former home sold after they were forced off the land. Just really, really bad all round. Who's brain child was this anyway?!
Up 19 Down 1
Michael on Nov 14, 2013 at 8:59 am
The previous land owners have a legitimate right to be upset and should probably have first dibs. The Parks Society however should have spoken up if they wanted to do something. It's a bit late to come back and say we had thoughts of putting something there but didn't say anything at the time.
Up 4 Down 17
Josey Wales on Nov 14, 2013 at 8:51 am
Hmm...civic governments (a.k.a. nobles) lying to their peasants...imagine that eh? The land pimps will do what they wish with parcels of dirt, always have and always will...please tell me you are "actually" surprised?
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