Infilling would create host of woes, council told
The city’s plan for infill housing lots in the Mary Lake subdivision doesn’t appear to be well thought-out,
By Chuck Tobin on July 5, 2017
The city’s plan for infill housing lots in the Mary Lake subdivision doesn’t appear to be well thought-out, area resident Stuart Young suggested to city council Tuesday evening.
Young told council he doesn’t know of any studies the city has conducted to determine how increasing housing would affect the ground water table and the capacity of established water wells.
Nor does there appear to be any information about whether more septic fields can be accommodated, he said in his presentation.
If the studies have been conducted, said Young, the results have not been shared with local residents.
The 18-year-resident of Iris Place told council one of the locations identified for infill would remove a wildlife corridor when there are already very few corridors for wildlife to move through in the city’s southern zone.
Replacing the corridor with housing would certainly lead to more wildlife-human conflict, inevitably resulting in animals being hunted down, he said.
Young also noted the Golden Horn Elementary School near the Carcross cutoff is already at capacity.
“Has the city considered the impact of adding even more students to this area?” Stuart asked. “Has a school expansion been added to the budget?”
City council decided in May to investigate the possibility of infill housing in a number of neighbourhoods to address the dearth of lots available to meet growing demand.
There’s currently one single-family lot available in the new Whistle Bend subdivision.
City planning staff have identified 13 locations as candidates for infill housing in eight different subdivisions.
Three of the locations are in Mary Lake. The largest of the three, for instance, is six hectares in size.
The first round of gathering public input ended June 18 with the deadline for residents to fill out a public survey on the matter.
Kinden Kosick, the city’s acting manager of planning and sustainability, said this morning staff are currently preparing a summary of what they heard for city council.
They received 460 responses to the survey, as well as 60 emails, he pointed out.
Kosick said they also retained a consultant to provide site suitability assessments, which will include information on file regarding geology, hydrology, the suitability of topography and the like.
Staff will be preparing and providing a summary of the site assessment work for council and the public, he said.
Any decision to go forward with infill housing would require a city bylaw, which includes a full public review.
Young told council if it was affordable housing the city was trying to create, providing more lots in Mary Lake is not the answer.
After all is said and done – preparing the lot, bringing in power, putting in a septic field – and then building a modest home, the bill is going to run about $800,000, he said.
And then, Young said, there’s the everyday cost of transportation, as there is no public transit serving the rural neighbourhood.
Access to one of the locations is on a hill, on an inside corner, he pointed out, noting his concerns regarding traffic safety.
The largest Mary Lake location identified as an infill candidate was designated as green space in the original subdivision plan, a designation that was adopted in the Official Community Plan, Young said.
“It is also to be part of the future Wolf Creek Park,” he told council.
“It has repeatedly been found unsuitable for development, and yet suddenly is set for infill lots.”
With the possibility of 12 new lots close to his, each with the potential to provide a garden suite, Young told council, he’s concerned about the potential impact on the water table and the well he had drilled for $35,000.
When a neighbour drilled a well a few years ago, the capacity of his well dropped by 35 per cent, he said.
If he has to return to trucked water delivery, Young asked council, is the city prepared to help with the cost?
While the city has committed itself to be a well-planned and self-sustaining community, he said, the infill project has not lived up to that commitment so far.
Young said the city has recognized the growing demand for country residential lots.
Why not pursue a new rural subdivision development, he suggested.
Young said the city should explore the possibility of working with First Nations to develop some of their land.
Comments (17)
Up 8 Down 2
Matt Newhart on Jul 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm
The city needs more lots somewhere as soon as possible. Spending on infrastructure and other items is rising and a larger tax base is the only way out or so it seems.
Its easier to take land within subdivisions than to create new sub-divisions. The attitude of council is that people who disagree with them are complainers and selfish. If you want quiet areas and green spaces and environmentally protection areas near your homes, even in country residential areas, you will be disappointed.
Council did not have any questions for Stuart Young which I believe says a lot.
Up 16 Down 3
john on Jul 10, 2017 at 4:23 pm
Ironically the city won't allow residents to subdivide due to water and sewer concerns yet they are willing to bulldoze greenspace and wildlife corridors to add more lots and houses in the same areas. Who runs this gong show?
Up 9 Down 13
Jayne W on Jul 9, 2017 at 3:46 pm
Yes, Salar there is land around all of us......Develop new residential areas. (They can even name it after you). That way builders can make money, people get the homes they want in a neighbourhood they desire, city will get additional tax revenues. Not Nimby, would love to see lots of development, it is more NIMBY not wanting to build new subdivisions. Just don't cram all us in a few areas. (PS you don't know what I paid for my lot, so please do not assume that I am a "back then" resident, I'm a new Nimby from the South). As for mocking CGC, it is a beautiful facility and this town is lucky, so no mocking there.
Up 15 Down 10
Salar on Jul 8, 2017 at 8:39 pm
@jayne w
It is Nimbyism. You paid very little for those lots 'back then' and YG was paying very similar salaries to today.
No one made any promises things wouldn't change, a bit even Jayne, in the future. You are very childish in that regard.
And the exaggeration re how many lots are proposed. Shame.
Shame for mocking CGC uses as well.
There is lots of land available Jayne, it's all around you.
Up 9 Down 3
Interested on Jul 8, 2017 at 12:15 am
Young has done his home work, regarding Golden Horn School (our lack of full time teachers) and the ground water table (what is the average well depth in the area)?
Most of the older wells in the area were supplied via YTG grants. They were good days however not to today's standards. And then the septic/grey water that may work it's way to the ground water. Kinda sounds like a money scam to me. If only the city would recede by 15 to 20 km either side of the big city I think a lot would be resolved.
Up 16 Down 10
Hoby Irwin on Jul 7, 2017 at 1:18 pm
Developers are now having to deal with BANANA
Build
Absolutely
Nothing
Anywhere
Near
Anybody
Up 15 Down 7
Jayne W on Jul 7, 2017 at 12:10 pm
@ Bud.....Is this NIBYISM a new word for Yukon residents? Down SOUTH, we used it all the time. And really it kind of looses it effect after awhile. We live in a Country Residential area, plain and simple. We did not buy to have the area developed every time there is a shortage of lots. (which there is, I get it). Quick solutions are not necessary the best ideas. And who is to say they might find a few other little green patches, to add more infill in a couple of years. Residents are asking Council to create more lots. There is land, create them. Will it be more expensive, yes...I have no problem having my tax dollars go towards this.
Up 15 Down 3
Bobby Bitman on Jul 7, 2017 at 9:56 am
There are three new neighbourhoods I am aware of just outside city limits to the south, which seem to have stalled out or are taking a long time to get going. There's the FN development at about km 4 on the South Klondike (Carcross Road). Road is in, at least from the highway, but no development for a few years.
Then there is the co-housing Mt. Lorne project which is applying for cheap land for its members.
There is also a new neighbourhood mapped out at about km 10 of the Carcross Road (Mosquito Road area).
I would guess the city wants to make lots available just inside the city limits so they can collect the tax revenue, but there are lots coming available soon, or at least should be if these projects get going.
Next thing is, most of the lots in Golden Horn and Mt. Lorne, Ibex, etc. are allowed to subdivide now. If that were encouraged - like give people a nudge somehow, maybe by creating a registry of people looking to buy so property owners could see what they might get for a lot and who might live there; there's another source of 'country res' lots.
Up 21 Down 6
ProScience Greenie on Jul 6, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Young makes good points. Why pack people in like that? Build more Mary Lakes but with smaller lots and more green space. No shortage of land and country residential is a good place to raise kids and do the so-called Wilderness City thing. The real Nimby types are the ones opposing more country residential lots. Then there's the greedy real estate and developers that are all about money not quality of life.
Grizzly Valley = over-engineered, overpriced and just plain stupid. Could have been so much simpler. People should be fired over that.
Up 21 Down 11
Bud McGee on Jul 6, 2017 at 1:54 pm
Jayne W says "Build a new subdivision, there is lots of land" ..... just not land close to me. The NIMBYism is strong with this one.
Up 8 Down 11
Matt Newhart on Jul 6, 2017 at 1:15 pm
Hope council sees the light and grandfathers the protection of areas like this. Or will we see another park plan which affected First Natons will refuse to support?
Up 14 Down 12
Matt Newhart on Jul 6, 2017 at 12:11 pm
I appreciate Stuart Young coming forward with these concerns, particularly the wildlife movement areas, the environmental protection status of the land and the new Wolf Creek Park. If the city does not offer protection they may as well take the park back.
I do not consider this NIMBYism- rather, its about thoughtful and appropriate planning.
Up 13 Down 15
Jayne W on Jul 6, 2017 at 11:58 am
Name us NIMBY all you want. Most of us moved here to not be around other homes, we wanted natural green space, we paid for this when we bought the land. These trails are used for recreation by everyone, even COW residents (we don't need to use the CGC it is in our backyard). We investigated what was around us at the time (other septic beds, wells etc) and what was there could be supported. As for more traffic, that is Council's words, THEY want to reduce traffic, they want the smaller footprint. Septic and water, that is documented in the City's Watershed plan.
The more you add the worse it can be. (to put it in easy terms, I can provide page numbers if you need it). Yes it is a desirable neighbourhood, so make it known to Council, YTG, FN, that more Country Residential areas need to be developed. Why turn the current areas into something you find in town, then it is not Country Residential anymore. It is filled with homes. What logic is that? Right now there are a few homes for Sale in Country Residential so you want to live there buy one of them.
Up 32 Down 12
Martin on Jul 6, 2017 at 11:21 am
Another NIMBY situation. It was said the same thing about infill Lots in Riverdale, Ingram and the like. I hope the CoW goes ahead and do it; looking after the residents in general and not the disgruntled NIMBYs in particular. This City belongs to everybody.
Up 15 Down 9
Yukon Joe on Jul 6, 2017 at 10:41 am
There is already a new country residential neighbourhood with lots for sale. YTG is selling lots in "Grizzly Valley" which is on the Mayo Road (North Klondike Hwy). There are 10 lots available on YTG's website: http://www.emr.gov.yk.ca/landmanagement/lotsale_yukon.html
Up 19 Down 11
Atom on Jul 5, 2017 at 8:46 pm
Way...nimby.....I didn't consider transit or wells or septics when I got my land but now......"....geology, hydrology,.......geography?!!!!"
Hahahaha....ha
Up 18 Down 24
Jayne W on Jul 5, 2017 at 5:05 pm
THANK YOU to Stuart Young for again expressing concerns of the proposed infilling. Many people do not agree with this. So the City got over 460 responses to the survey and 60 emails.....Please do not forget that approx. 160 people signed the petition, they do have a voice as well. Build a new subdivision, there is lots of land it is as simple as that.