City staff have been directed by council members to investigate the costs of both shutting down the Mount Sima recreational facility and keeping it running.

A two-hour council and senior management meeting was held Wednesday evening.

Great Northern Ski Society president Craig Hougen and secretary Lee Vincent presented the most recent business plan for the hill. They also fielded questions from council members over the $610,000 the society is seeking from the city to keep Sima open.

By the end of the session, Mayor Dan Curtis was asking administration to look at the possibility of securing the hill's assets to the city. Greater clarity on the costs of shutting down the facility and keeping it opened were also sought.

The non-profit society, which operates Mount Sima, told the city earlier this week it needs the funding it's seeking from the city by June 21.

Failing that, it would begin the process of disassembling the society and shutting down the hill.

The hill's financial woes were made clear early this year when the society and its supporters initially came to the city.

They were seeking $400,000 in immediate funding to deal with debt and ongoing expenses.

They also sought a long-term plan that could include the city providing annual core funding, which was expected to be around another $400,000 each year.

The request came almost a year after the society received $1.3 million to move to full-year operations at the ski hill.

Another $1.6 million was provided by the city a year before that for the new chairlift out of funds that were freed up after Building Canada money came through for work on Black Street.

The city didn't provide the funding requested earlier this year. However, it offered support for an event involving stakeholders with the goal of reaching a more community-based solution.

The society hosted two closed-door events – one as an information session, the other looking at solutions – before bringing forward its latest plan, which proposes the city funding of the more than $600,000.

As Curtis told ski society officials last night, he had thought the Sima Summit would see organizations and businesses come forward with solutions to the short-term funding issues, but the ask is still coming to the city.

And as a number of council members pointed out, the money just isn't there to fund it and the general public just doesn't seem to want to support it.

"I wish we had the money,” Curtis said. He went on to compare it to a parent who may want to buy his or her child a car, but the money to do so just isn't there.

"I think the ship has sailed,” he said. He stressed it hurt him to say that, and noted that Sima has provided the community with many benefits over the years.

"It's a really, really hard issue,” Curtis said.

Time is also a factor. As Coun. John Streicker pointed out, the June 21 deadline doesn't even fit the normal timeframe for a council decision.

Typically, issues first come forward and are discussed without a vote at a standing committee meeting with a vote typically taking place at the regular meeting the following week.

Council's next standing committee meeting is Monday, with the next regular meeting then set for June 24.

There are provisions allowing for council to call a special meeting where a vote can be held outside of its regular schedule.

Hougen then noted the "real deadline” is June 30. He explained the June 21 deadline was arrived at based on the June 30 payment due on the hill's chairlift.

The territory has said it would pay off the more than $180,000 due on the chairlift, provided Sima will be operating next winter.

A number of council members noted their leanings toward not providing the funding to keep the hill going.

Streicker, however, was quick to remind his fellow council members that whether the city puts money into keeping the hill going or keeping it secure after it shuts down, there will be a cost to the city.

"There is a cost on both sides, in my opinion,” he said.

As Coun. Jocelyn Curteanu pointed out though, the costs that come with mothballing the facility are more fixed than what might come if Sima remains open.

Revenue for Sima depends largely on factors such as weather that are out of anyone's control, she pointed out.

The society's most recent estimate of icing the facility puts the annual cost at $193,000.

That includes the two full-time staff it states is needed for maintenance, along with electricity, septic and water, heating and vehicle fuel as well as maintenance supplies and contracted work.

Coun. Kirk Cameron, however, noted his thoughts that the estimate is somewhat excessive. He wondered if a fence and alarm system could provide the security needed if the ski hill was decommissioned.

He told staff he would like to see some "crisp numbers” on what the actual costs of closure could be compared to the cost of staying open with all the factors considered.

Vincent told council if the facility is mothballed, the chairlift would still need to be paid off, and the territory's funding is contingent on Sima opening for the winter.

There's also the 10-year lease agreement between the society and Wild Play for the adventure park that makes up much of the summer operations at the hill and legal issues that could arise if that lease is broken.

The society is also currently working with Wild Play to pay off its $72,000 debt through this summer's operations and that debt would have to be dealt with.

Vincent also went on to tell the city that a society can't dissolve when there is debt.

So, if the city funding doesn't come through, the ski society would first sell off the hill's assets that aren't fixed – the Snowcat and other equipment to pay off its debts, which include another $170,000 owed to local vendors.

That could mean if the hill reopened in the future, equipment would have to be purchased again.

Council considered the distinct possibility of the city's only ski hill shutting down.

Curtis, however, stated his hope that maybe a year or more without the hill operating would galvanize the community into action that could eventually see the hill reopen.

As members discussed the possibility of not funding Sima and seeing it close, Coun. Dave Stockdale spoke out against the closure.

"I think shutting it down is the worst thing we can do,” he said. "I think it's really a backward step.”

Stockdale said he'd like to see some sort of public forum held where residents could tell council where they stand on the issue.

He pointed to the city's Development Cost Charges fund as one account the city could look at to provide the funding, which, he pointed out, could go directly to creditors to pay off Sima's debts.

The Canada Winter Games were a great experience for the city, he said, noting many at the time spoke out against the cost of hosting the 2007 national event.

He also said he would like to see numbers on how many are in favour of keeping the facility open and how many are against.

Streicker said that while he hasn't kept count in recent weeks of the numbers that have come into him, prior to the Sima Summit sessions, he was keeping track and could make his spreadsheet available to other council members.

He put a rough estimate at about 2/3 being against further funding to keep Sima open and 1/3 in favour.

Curtis argued the overwhelming response from the public is not to provide further funding to keep the hill going.

"I'm pretty clear on how the public feels,” the mayor said, with Curteanu echoing the sentiment.

As the meeting came to a close, Hougen took the opportunity to make a final plea to council, pointing out the hill has found a way to operate for the past 20 years (with the exception of the 2007/08 season). It's unfortunate politics have become involved, he said.

The $3-million chairlift, which the city funded to the tune of more than $1 million, replaced an "asset that was aged.”

He noted if the roof were to blow off the Canada Games Centre, it would be replaced by the city. For the ski society though, it had to do fund-raising and go to other sources to find the money for the lift.

Closing down the ski hill which has operated for two decades is not the right thing to do, Hougen said, calling Sima part of the fabric of the community.

The society is out of time and money, he stressed, noting he paid for garbage collection from the hill recently out of his own pocket.

After last evening's meeting, acting city manager Brian Crist said it is "technically possible” for staff to have a report to council on Sima for Monday's standing committee meeting.

The report would sum up last night's session and "crunch” some numbers around the possibilities for the hill.