Whitehorse Daily Star

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Minister of Community Services John Streicker and NDP MLA Liz Hanson

High land prices raised in legislature

John Streicker, the minister of Community Services, was quizzed on the high price of Yukon land on Monday in the legislature.

By Gabrielle Plonka on November 19, 2019

John Streicker, the minister of Community Services, was quizzed on the high price of Yukon land on Monday in the legislature.

NDP MLA Liz Hanson accused the government of selling lots at market value, worsening the escalating cost of housing.

“Instead of lots priced according to the development costs, they go for market value,” Hanson said.

“With demand for available lots exceeding supply, prices will only continue to rise.”

Hanson said the least expensive lot available in Whitehorse is currently priced at $227,000 before taxes.

She questioned the government’s choice to sell some lots to the highest bidder, driving up prices, as reported by the Star during the past summer.

Hanson spoke in particular of one lot, which sold for a price $23,000 higher than the government’s minimum bid.

“In a housing market that is already overheated –– due in no small part to the government’s ad hoc approach to development and release of lots suitable for a range of affordable housing options –– we echo an editorial comment from last June…

“What justification is there for government authored-escalation of lot prices in the current environment, and does the government intend to continue down that path?”

Streicker disagreed that his government is working in an “ad hoc” manner. He sung the praises of its increased investment in lot development.

“Our objective is to strike a fine balance in maintaining a healthy supply of lot inventory in both Whitehorse and rural communities while not adversely affecting the current market,” Streicker said.

Later, speaking to reporters, Streicker said $42 million has been invested in lot development, and there are plans to create a surplus in the market.

“Our goal is to have a two-year supply of lots in all communities,” Streicker said.

“You want to have a supply of lots. The reason you want that supply is because if you don’t, it starts pushing prices up.”

Liberal MLA Ted Adel tabled a motion in the house Monday urging the government to create a supply of land banks in communities, with the purpose of keeping prices low.

Streicker said that multiple communities, in addition to Whitehorse, will be included in the plan for lot development.

“We need lots all across the territory, whether we are talking Watson Lake or we’re talking Dawson,” Streicker said.

“There is a demand, and it’s both for residential lots and for commercial lots, so what that tells you is the economy is really hot right now in the territory. There’s a lot of growth, and that’s pressure on all of our communities.”

Streicker refuted Hanson’s claim that lots are consistently sold at market price, versus the development cost.

He said the development cost and the market price act as “bookmarks” for lot pricing.

In some instances, particularly in communities, the development cost was actually higher than the market price, he said.

The government’s policy allowed for either the development cost or the market price to be listed, to create flexibility in choosing the lower price.

Another priority for the government is to provide land in multiple sizes to “encourage the construction of smaller, more affordable homes,” he told the house.

As an example, Streicker referenced the new lots in Whistle Bend, which range from duplexes to townhouses. The least expensive of those cost approximately $60,000.

“When considering the price of lots, we look at development costs and market values and base decisions on both the current market conditions and the cost of development and recovery,” Streicker said.

Comments (20)

Up 0 Down 3

Wilf Carter on Nov 26, 2019 at 3:06 am

Hi folks - I developed land in Yukon and across Canada and we are creating our high land & housing costs that will fall in the end. I have seen it three times in Whitehorse over the years.
There should be 100 to 200 lots available each year in COW.
With new mines coming on these miners will live else where in Canada.

Up 8 Down 3

Jim on Nov 24, 2019 at 3:53 pm

@Old Timer, I think this is pretty hard to lay high housing prices at the feet of realtors. For one thing, I think your giving them way more credit than the effort they put into it. When you hire a realtor you want them to get as much for your house as possible. That’s their job. When you are selling, the last thing your thinking about is the high price of property. If your realtor came to you and told you to list your house for say $20k less than market to help bring prices down, you would bounce him down the road. Our housing market is high for a couple reasons. Availability and cost. That’s it. If there was a glut of houses on the market, prices would go down. If material prices dropped and permits and development fees reduced, prices would drop. If developers weren’t starving for trades, labour would even go down. But overall what is a large influence on house prices is the government using market value to develop lots. The lot should not be 1/3 or more of the price of a new build.

Up 16 Down 4

Old Timer on Nov 23, 2019 at 12:21 pm

Nobody says a word about the role that realtors play in the inflated prices. They have a vested interest in chasing up prices. Not much effort and costs going into selling a house in Whitehorse these days.

Up 10 Down 1

Jackson on Nov 22, 2019 at 4:25 pm

@Salt
You're not looking at the right data. I was one of those lucky people who bought right near the top of the market. Average prices in Copper Ridge peaked in 2010 and retraced a full 17% and this time last year only got back up to touch that price. Now the price is slightly above where the average was in Copper Ridge 10 years ago. The market is the market and the Copper Ridge market is distinct from Whistle Bend that has its own micro-market in that it's not the same housing products or code that Copper Ridge was built to.

I am saying that there is no magic government policy or land trickery to make homes affordable outside of market forces. They can't make materials cheaper, labour less expensive or developers to forego their profit motives. Government can incentivize or subsidize - but they certainly can't do that for a whole market.

Up 11 Down 2

Jonathan Colby on Nov 22, 2019 at 12:30 pm

No politician will fall on the sword that is the housing bubble. That's a real thing.

There's not any compelling reasons land cannot be released for next to nothing, not for developer sale, but for resident purchase and build. But, the Aughts saw an increase in real estate prices that was buoyed by compliant governments. Everyone (read:homeowners and landlords) made a clucking fortune, and it shaped the current political climate of today. Now, "market price" is used to justify huge lot prices and unnecessary over development of new lots.

No one will correct the housing market, because it will only sting the landlords, really hurt a lot of families, though likely providing some respite to the very low income folks. It would likely trigger a drop in population, bring challenges by the Notable Names in the rentier class, and it would certainly be the end of that politicians career.

We all just get to sit back and wait for the bubble to burst. Isn't that fun?

Up 10 Down 9

Salt on Nov 21, 2019 at 9:58 pm

Hey Jackson, according to the Yukon Bureau of Statistics the average price of a single detached home increased 49% from 2009-2018. If the house you bought 10 years ago has only appreciated 15% as you claim, then you are doing something wrong. Sadly the rest of your post is of even less merit. Saying “markets are markets” is like saying a Great Dane and a Pomeranian are both dogs. By definition it’s true, but at best it’s a deflection. At worst, you simply don’t understand what you are talking about.

Up 11 Down 9

Jackson on Nov 21, 2019 at 3:39 pm

Markets are markets. Market rates are set by buyers and sellers. There is little government can actually do to meet any of "your" definitions of affordability. Labour rates are set by labour markets - reflective of skill availability, cost of living and other... and sure Yukon government has a hand in that as a large unionized employer that skews the market but not sure they "fix" it. Material, transportation, energy, fuel are all markets that frankly Yukon has no real control over the cost of. Market conditions have put a floor under most of these costs, so affordable is a relative term.

It took me a few years to save up, but I was able to buy a home in Whitehorse as a self-employed single guy 10 years ago (about 15% less than the value is today) and bought a second home a couple years ago, keeping the first as an income property. It hasn't been easy, but I have been able to do what most on here seem to think isn't possible. We need to ensure people have adequate access to housing, but everyone doesn't need to be a home-owner - many are in fact better off not owning their own home. To become a home-owner we've always needed a decent and stable income and be very capable of managing personal finances. There's no magic quick-fix to jump into home ownership and that's probably a good thing, owning a home is a huge responsibility and not to be taken lightly.

Up 10 Down 12

Brent Law on Nov 21, 2019 at 12:29 am

Land prices closely reflect the cost of infrastructure whether installed by a City contractor or outside the city privately out of town where a driveway, water well and a couple power poles can run 100k EACH. I built my own house in town and did EVERYTHING myself with my final cost over 250k and that's not paying any wages out. My land cost 45k.
Same house built by a developer would have cost 350-400k and sold for $500k. Construction materials cost is high. Trade wages are high. Infrastructure cost is CRAZY.
What my point is that land prices, fair as I believe they are, are just one piece in a very expensive pie called home ownership.

Up 11 Down 1

No Excuse for Failure on Nov 20, 2019 at 9:26 pm

John knows why WB was clear cut; newspapers won't touch that story.

Up 9 Down 1

jc on Nov 20, 2019 at 9:23 pm

"Supply and demand". That's what drives up the prices. Let's try "Demand and supply" for a couple of years and see how that solves the problems.

Up 29 Down 2

Boyd Campbell on Nov 20, 2019 at 3:14 pm

It's a matter of waiting it out. When the next downturn is coming is open to speculation at this point. But make no mistake it is coming. As long as the government(s) keep(s) hiring and getting larger the prices will keep going up. The prices are based on two gov't jobs paying a mortgage. When your paying some of the highest wages in the country the outcome is predictable.
As JC (must be the big guy) pointed out if people keep paying the inflated prices it just makes the crash more violent. It's a lot easier for us older folks to watch this after seeing the ups and downs over the last 50 years. Your biggest mistake is believing the all encompassing Liberal spending will float you through this. It never has and it never will.

Up 41 Down 7

Matthew on Nov 20, 2019 at 6:46 am

Lots... don't worry about the lots, worry about why a house built in 1970 with 2x4 walls and R12 insulation cost the same as a new house with R40 walls.. should also be a cap on buying houses for contract positions such as the gov sector, which largely to blame for the sky rocketing house prices.. young new couples are finding it impossible to start a family when they're simple renters and can be booted out at end of any lease. The gov solution is to bring in more low skilled over seas workers. They need to focus on Canadian families first!

Up 18 Down 11

spot on Nov 19, 2019 at 10:56 pm

Any sale price lower than market price is just a freebie to developers. You can be sure they will charge market for the homes they build. Better to receive market price, then TRY to direct the surplus toward people who need it rather than handing it over to people who are already well off.

Up 39 Down 1

Guncache on Nov 19, 2019 at 9:43 pm

Development costs? You put in survey pins, you don't have to cut lines anymore. You put in water, sewer, paved roads, utilities. That's in the city. How about rural properties? They sell for crazy money too. Lots and real estate in Whitehorse is insane money. I'm thankful my mortgage is paid off

Up 38 Down 1

Tory on Nov 19, 2019 at 6:25 pm

This is something I always questioned. Use whistle bend phase 4 and do some napkin math. Bid was just under 12 million divide that by the 177 lots. That’s an average lot price of just under 70,000 dollars. Even if you add another 5 million for add ons and whatever else isn’t included in the bid price is still under 100 K average a lot.

I guess If you sold it at a lower price, housing prices would go down??? I don’t know. Regardless it sucks for the have nots.

Up 39 Down 3

Salt on Nov 19, 2019 at 5:07 pm

I have no idea why it has taken this long for opposition to address the elephant in the room, but thank you Liz Hanson for addressing the obvious root cause of the housing crisis. Shame on Streicker for dodging and obfuscating. He presented a perfect example of the unprincipled, dishonest career political parasites that infest our government.
Government is essentially the monopoly supplier in the so-called land 'market' in the Yukon and where we are at today is the direct result of conscious policy decisions made over the last 14-15 years. All of these policy decisions put the governments thumb on the scales, favoring price inflation. They have intentionally restricted land supply by not developing enough internally and not releasing any to be developed externally. They have promised to develop a two year supply for the last decade, yet here they are still touting this 'promise'. Their words tell you nothing, their action tells you everything.
They intentionally changed policy that dictated that land be sold at development cost, injecting the perverse idea that as a monopoly supplier they should be able to 'profit' by selling land at a self appointed 'fair market' (lol) value. Since instituting this market perversion they have aggressively and shamelessly increased land prices whenever possible. Any one remember the returned Whitehorse Copper lot that they put back on the market at a price 100% more than what they listed it for less than two years before? Shameless, in your face, unmitigated greed.
Government has also been inflating demand through its ongoing, relentless bureaucratic bloat. Now that the market is where it is, they have absolutely no intention, zero, nada, zilch, of doing anything to correct it. They'll lie about their culpability. They'll tinker around the edges. Try to focus on the tree of homelessness while ignoring the forest. They'll look for new ways to shoehorn people into monstrous unaffordable mortgages that are guaranteed to default in the next correction. They'll try to force private business to subsidize the bubble by inflating minimum wages. They will do everything to avoid addressing the root of the problem that they created because they have personally benefited too much from this giant wealth transfer, asset bubble to ever risk popping it.

Up 28 Down 3

b on Nov 19, 2019 at 4:57 pm

Just for your reference John you didn't BS your way out of it. Kids starting out looking for a piece of land in Yukon will appreciate the concern of Ms Hanson and call you on a load of bunk.

Up 22 Down 5

jc on Nov 19, 2019 at 4:40 pm

Anybody that would purchase a lot for $227,000.00 deserves to lose their money.

Up 40 Down 2

stephen on Nov 19, 2019 at 3:58 pm

First stop artificially inflating lots to make it unaffordable in a place where houses should not cost more than a few $100k. Open up a large number of lots and put restrictions on the sale such as it has to be your primary home, you have to live there for a minimum of 5 years, one per family.

Oh and for god sakes don't clear cut the area like you did to the other developments. Build roads and sidewalks in and let the people clear the lots to their desire.

This is not rocket science it's just politicians listening to their real estate buddies, developer friends and flippers. Time you let the citizens tell you how to do it and too bad if your friends don't make money.

Up 31 Down 2

Groucho d'North on Nov 19, 2019 at 3:27 pm

What Mr. Streicker did not say is that Cabinet ( he and his other Liberal ministers) are the ones who determine what pricing option is to be used. So anything he says about wanting to make land prices affordable for Yukoners should be taken with a large gain of salt

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