Games Centre's activities irk business owners
New equipment and fitness classes happening at the Canada Games Centre is costing Better Bodies memberships and putting the tax-funded recreational complex in direct competition with the private sector, says the owner of the Marwell-based fitness centre.
New equipment and fitness classes happening at the Canada Games Centre is costing Better Bodies memberships and putting the tax-funded recreational complex in direct competition with the private sector, says the owner of the Marwell-based fitness centre.
"My concern is they continue to damage our business," Jim Oster told the Star this morning.
The comments come after Coun. Doug Graham brought up the issue at Monday's city council meeting, where he asked management to organize a noon meeting for staff and council to discuss the matter.
This year's budget approved spending for new equipment at the centre. It has bought four new bicycles, heavier weights, a new dip machine and a recumbent bike.
Recalling the early discussions around the building of the Canada Games Centre, Graham said the city had vowed not to compete with the private sector.
"That was not the intent of the Canada Games Centre, but it appears, lately anyway, from the allegations that we've received, that we are competing; not only competing, but doing it with their taxpayer dollars and causing them a great deal of stress," Graham said.
Representatives from each of the fitness centres he's spoken to have noticed a substantial drop in memberships. There have also been cases of the city getting new employees who were trained in the private sector, then came over to work at the Games Centre because the city pays a higher wage, he said.
Along with the new equipment set to be added to the wellness centre this month are fitness classes, such as a modified boot camp, that would normally be offered at a fitness centre.
"We have to draw a line at some point and say if there is room for both private fitness organizers as well as the Canada Games Centre to operate, then we have to determine what the parameters are because to me, you don't use tax payers' dollars to put private businesses out of business. It's just not acceptable," Graham said.
While Peak Fitness and the city were working in partnership to provide the wellness centre in the beginning after a request for proposals went out, there were a variety of reasons it didn't work out, Graham said.
Restrictions were then placed on what the city could offer in its wellness centre to ensure it didn't compete with the private businesses in town.
While city council would have approved the $25,000 equipment expense in its capital budget, Graham pointed out the type of equipment wouldn't have come forward in detail at that time.
At the same time too is the city's move to focus on getting monthly membership rates up at the centre.
Over the last six months, there's only been one month where there have been more monthly memberships sold than in the year previous, something Graham suggested could be the impetus behind the equipment purchase.
"There's a certain amount of pressure from council, if no one else it's from me, to say you need to make more than 40 per cent of the money for the Canada Games Centre; we have to recover a greater portion than we are now," he said
"So that's what they're (Canada Games Centre staff) trying to do. So they're caught between a rock and a hard spot too."
He went on to suggest that perhaps his expectation of recovering more money could be unrealistic.
"It's a real tough one, you know, because I can appreciate what the Canada Games Centre staff is trying to do, but I also don't want to see any businesses put into bankruptcy," he said.
While Oster said it would be quite a while before Better Bodies would have to close, the city's continuing purchase of equipment for the wellness centre and classes that mirror what they're offering are making it more difficult to operate his business.
Like Graham, Oster recalled the opening of the centre when he and other private fitness facility owners were assured they would not be in competition with the city.
The wellness centre, he was told, was aimed at parents who could get a workout while their children went to hockey or swimming or other events at the centre.
"I understand the need for a city multiplex," he said, adding though there is a "fine line" what the city should offer and when it moves into competition with private industry.
"We knew we were going to take a hit."
That hit, however, has far passed what Oster had planned to absorb as more and more equipment and classes have been added to the list of offerings from the city. Oster said his memberships have fallen about 30 per cent since the centre opened.
Like both Better Bodies and Peak Fitness, the city offers its workers a 50-per-cent corporate discount at the centre that's subsidized by taxpayers. While city officials have stated the discount is aimed at making their staff healthier, Oster questions if that is the concern why workers aren't told of the discount available at all three fitness centres.
While some members have told him they are now going to the Games Centre, he noted he can go up there any day of the week and see former Better Bodies members working out there.
At the very least, he suggested, the city should be willing to meet with him and discuss the matter.
"They won't even sit down," he said, adding he's raised the concern a number of times since the Canada Games Centre opened.
Optimum Health Fitness Support owner Lisa Vowk brought up similar concerns.
Her business, which offers personal training and operates out of Better Bodies, said today the city's move to offer body composition testing directly interferes with her business.
The same test that the city's offering for $20 has been listed at $65 through her business for a number of years.
The composition testing came to her attention when the husband of one of her employees, who plays hockey, received an e-mail about it. Another person she knows received the e-mail in the role as part of a corporate wellness committee.
Those are similar clients Optimum has been targeting for those services, she said.
While Vowk would not say what position she worked in, she noted in the three years she worked at the Games Centre, she learned the city wasn't supposed to move into direct competition with private business.
"There has to be a middle ground," she said, adding the wellness centre at the Canada Games Centre is supposed to be aimed at those who don't have specific needs that must be met.
In no way was the city to provide personal training services or programs that were available by other means, such as spinning classes.
While she and her employees have provided training up there on occasion, as personal trainers they are required to rent the space.
Vowk hopes she and others with similar concerns will be able to meet and work out a solution, but if not, she said she and others will likely present their concerns directly to the city as delegates at a city council meeting.
Art Manhire, the Games Centre's manager, defended the additional equipment and services this morning, arguing the city is continuing to serve a different demographic than a private fitness centre would see.
"We have an obligation to provide a service," he said, arguing the new equipment augments what's there.
He said the new bikes include four new stationary bikes along with the replacement recumbent bike and there aren't any spinning classes being offered there.
The wellness centre, he said, creates awareness about fitness and helps get people started, creating a "huge opportunity" in the private sector.
While he compared the arguments as similar to stating that the city plowing the roads is competing with the private sector, Vowk argued it was similar to the city paving driveways for a cheaper rate than the private sector could provide.
The job of the multiplex is to provide families with a variety of experiences while following the commitment to contribute to the health of the whole community. A private fitness club, he suggested, can follow up and provide more services to the community.
He pointed to the 300-member Weight Watchers group that uses the facility. Many of those members are new to fitness, and the centre plays a role in introducing them to a variety of fitness options before they perhaps on to more specific fitness programs at a private facility.
Comments (24)
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Anthony on Jul 30, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Susan: Yeah. The guvmint has a secret agenda to sink private gyms....who is paranoid now?
So maybe you want to set the record straight do you pay COW taxes or not? Someone upthread indicates you don't yet you claim you do.....just wondering.
By your rule book CGC should be bulldozed in case some private company ever wants to open a pool/rink/field house/sauna/hottub/playroom/meeting room/teen centre/indoor running track etc etc etc.
Look, I pay COW taxes. I use CGC often, so do my kids. I'll continue to do that. My choice. I suggest you swallow your pride and go back to Better Bodies with your tail between your legs, it's where you belong.
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anonymous on Jul 30, 2009 at 11:13 am
Susan. That is the attitude that stopped us from going to gyms in the first place. You used to be an owner of peak fitness? Enough said.
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francias pillman on Jul 30, 2009 at 10:45 am
Its rather sad that this has to be the longest most commented article ever on.this site. All the real issuses that should cared about are ignored, and useless topics such as this one that affects nothing, people are writing novels with their life storys. Too bad the peel watershed wasn't as important as complaining about you spending an extra 5$.
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susan rogan on Jul 30, 2009 at 4:06 am
One last point for Anthony, if the private facilities received the money per member that the Games Center does through subsidies from the government, they would be able to hire more staff for cleaning, maintenance and for assisting members.
Reminder of what my point is: I am not against subsidizing fitness. We have all kinds of programs encouraging people to stay healthy (quit smoking, prevent diabetes, RPAY, etc. etc.), and I completely agree with that. We also pay to deal with health problems through our public medical system, so why not use the cheaper option of keeping people healthy in the first place?
My suggestion was that people be given a voucher and be allowed to spend it where they see fit - private or public, in order to level the playing field.
Or.. that the government should admit they are playing a rigged game against the local businesses and buy out them out rather than putting them out of business through tax subsidized competition. Do the decent thing.
That is all I'm saying, I am not saying that that the Games Center should not exist.
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susan rogan on Jul 30, 2009 at 3:47 am
Hi Cindy, You sound like a very paranoid person. I doubt very much that people are gazing at you wondering why you bother. Believe it or not, you are probably not the most important thing in the room to them and they probably do not notice you one fraction as much as you apparently notice them. Your comments on not getting the help you needed are valid. As are comments that have been made regarding cleanliness and maintenance. That said, if you are happy and more comfortable in your home all the more power to you. You are bearing the entire cost of your choice and are not asking private gyms to subsidize your choice through buying your home equipment.
I want you to know however that my favourite members when I owned a gym actually were the people with disabilities and the people who were starting out with some pretty big challenges. There were people who had organ transplants, who had muscular dystrophy, and yes, who were very over weight. I admired them and never heard them whine about others supposedly staring at them and judging them. So, get a grip and do it for yourself, get over it, you have a right to be there and should be proud of yourself.
As far as 'quarter backing', Anthony, I have absolutely no affiliation with any gym in this town. Not only that, I am not 'friends' with any gym owners and actually had a fair bit of friction with Better Bodies when they opened up, due to some dirty dealing with the squash club. So it's not like I am 'quarter backing' for the local gyms. I am a Whitehorse tax payer, and I also am interested in justice. What is going on right now with the Canada Games Center, is in my opinion, unjust with respect to the private gyms. If you do not like that, respond to my posts. Rather than attempting to diminish the validity of where I am coming from, with no basis I might add, come up with some good arguments.
Thanks.
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jack malone on Jul 29, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Susan - I appreciate that you are using your real name. But I must point out that your perspective was formed as a former owner of PF. BTW - what's your worry since you don't pay any property tax to the City of Whitehorse (don't you real just outside of the municipal boundary). Out of curosity, do you use the CGC since, if you don't pay municipal property taxes, your use of the CGC would be subsidized by other municipal tax payers in Whse!
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cindy on Jul 29, 2009 at 9:27 am
I have read all the above statements; first I have to say..Susan you sound like a very angry individual! My opinion only!
I spent three years at better bodies, subsidized thru my government position. The reason I am no longer going there is the fact of additude! I had to push myself and learn to train myself at better bodies. I recieved one day and only one day of explanation on how all the equipment worked...thats it no more! Needless to say when i went the next day and there on I had to ask other people there how to turn certain things on/off.
I too now work out at home in the comforts of my home where I am not looked at with the look of why bother lady from the eyes of people who had never seen a fat day in thier lives.
I do on occassion go to the CGC and I enjoy it as one other said cause there are real people there and not "buffs" I support and encourage people to go there and check it out. It is also awesome to soak in the hot tub after a good workout!!! try it sometime, you may actually enjoy yourself for a change!
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Anthony on Jul 28, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Susan, Monday morning quarterbacking much?
Lets call a spade a spade. The building is there and yes, we're all paying for it so CGC should obviously bring in programs that draw people to help pay down O and M costs. As many have mentioned. Gyms and the CGC draw different crowds and honestly most of the private gyms in town (and yes, I've been) are ghastly in terms of cleanliness and repair of equipment.
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susan rogan on Jul 28, 2009 at 2:49 am
Looking at most of these comments, I am amazed at how many Whitehorse citizens apparently do not know that their property taxes are being used to pay for the Canada Games Center.
User fees do not even come close to paying HALF the operating costs up there. 'Operating costs' do not include rent, nor a mortgage.
So my friends, let's say you are paying $45 per month to use the fitness facility at the Games Center. That translates to around $110 per month if they were actually covering their costs rather than asking your next door neighbour to contribute to your gym membership through her property tax. Okay? Get it now?
Furthermore, the whole building was donated by the tax payer. If you were to actually pay the mortgage on that building through your gym membership, as happens in private business, you would be looking at a monthly fee of at least $190, given the price tag of that building.
Now, what could Peak Fitness and Better Bodies provide for $190 per month per member? It would be spectacular. What I am saying is, fine, if Yukoners want subsidized fitness facilities, give the subsidy to the consumer and let him or her decide where to spend it! Or else admit that you are playing a rigged game and do the decent thing and buy these people out, so they do not lose their life savings to a crooked deal.
Lastly, when this facility was built, the city swore up and down that there would never be a weights room that would compete with private business.
I believe it is time for the local gyms to go to court over this to sue for damages. Then the facts can come out and people can learn how things really work vis-a-vis private business expenses verses government. You will see that private business provides vastly superior service for the same price, given the chance of receiving the same price.
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anonymous on Jul 27, 2009 at 8:58 am
If Canada Games Center was consistently open a 5 am I would go there in a heartbeat. In the summer and around Christmas they don't open until 6 am which is too late for met to get to work on time. That's one way the private gyms can compete - earlier hours. All gyms are way too busy in the evening.
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Max on Jul 27, 2009 at 4:15 am
The people that use the facilities at the Canada Games Centre (CGC) are, in the main, a different clientele from those that choose to use the private gyms. Without choice, some people surely would pay the higher fees at the local gyms. However, I do not accept the argument that large membership declines at the private gyms are due to competition from the CGC. Perhaps the gyms should examine how they are running their facilities instead of blaming the City. For another thing, there are a LOT of private gyms in this town (Peak, Better Bodies, Curves . . . ). As for the low salaries and benefits paid to their employees, that is a personal choice that the gym owners make to increase their profit.
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Francias Pillman on Jul 24, 2009 at 11:39 am
Too much bickering going on here. The solution? Close every health facilty in the city and replace them with mcdonalds.you can eat, kids play in that roundabout thing, then have a relaxing mcburp and call it a day. We need also to start siting down more glued to the tv eating frankenfoods doing what the tv tells us like good little humans.
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Amy Leach on Jul 23, 2009 at 9:45 am
I completely agree with Susan. It is unfair competition when you have one city-subsidized centre competing against other non-subsidized gyms. Private gym pricing represents what the true cost of the service is, not the cost after significant subsidies by the city.
And regarding the body composition tests--I encourage people to make sure they are comparing apples to apples. I have had a body composition done at both the CGC and Peak Fitness. I got very valuable information from both places, but the tests themselves are quite different and provide different information. The responsibility lies with the client to decide what information they need to best help them achieve their goals.
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Homer J. on Jul 23, 2009 at 5:03 am
CGC draws a demographic that has no interest in going to Peak/Better bodies for a number of factors.
CGC users are more casual users. For instance, I'll bring my kid to hockey and run for 30 mins (track or treadmill)
Peak and BB tend to draw the young/single crowd and more serious lifters and athletes. More of a meat market atmosphere and these are things that make potential new gym users comfortable. Also as mentioned above the non CGC facilities are falling into disrepair.
It is well within the gov't (municipal, territorial and federal) mandate to provide tax funded fitness services to citizens.
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Don McKenzie on Jul 22, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I believe that I mentioned, multiple times in the past, that Whitehorse would be paying for the Canada Games Centre, for at least a generation. I could see that there are not enough people in Whitehorse for that place to recover 50% of it's costs. But hey, enough people at the time thought that it would be a great idea to host the games, and pushed it all through.
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Arn Anderson on Jul 22, 2009 at 11:31 am
This is a joke. Years after years gyms prices has always been high. $45 to $60 a month, oh wow, you get a reduced rate if you buy yearly packages. The initiation fees are laughable, I mean come on, you take my money and I get no initiation results. Look down south, ballys and others, $15 a month, gee, am I wrong? Anything over $25 a month to go to the gym is horrendous.
On another note, look what the gyms sell in products, almost a 50% mark up. Anyone who knows anything would order that stuff on the internet and not pay those ridicolous prices. They probably order from the same internet companies and believe me, over $100 is free shipping but still that protein drink is around $5 at the gym but bought for less than $2.
As for the employee issue, the city always pays higher, its part of all levels of gov't to compete with private business'. I guarantee you, you wont be working for less if your qualified to make more somewhere else, nature of the beast, get used to it.
Show some intuition private industry instead of high prices and fees because any clown out of business school can dream up raising prices and more fees or is that all they teach in business classes these days?
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Fitness Buff on Jul 22, 2009 at 10:48 am
Personally I believe that the local business must stop the grumbling because if they choose to keep rising their prices for membership for the use of useless equipment than I for one will keep going to the Canada Games Centre. I mean why not? you pay at least 40% less than the other gyms and you get the use of everything.
If the local business want to succeed they should be offering at least a fair price.
I live right beside one of the local gyms but would rather drive 20 mins to the games centre to get my money's worth.
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huh? on Jul 22, 2009 at 10:22 am
Mosi you are not listening (and check your spelling). The private businesses are having to pay 100% of their operating costs. The "fitness" programs at the CGC only recover 40% at best.
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susan rogan on Jul 21, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Give the gyms an identical subsidy to the subsidy per member at the Games center, and let's see who out compete's whom! I'd put my money on the private gyms. I know when I owned a gym in this town, the Lion's Pool mandate was to re-coup 50% of their costs, and they never managed to do that. And that's with no rent/mortgage to pay, just operating costs. My tax dollars went to pay for their short falls. Also, some of our staff did indeed move over to the city after being trained by our gym.
Fair? Not at all. Try standing in the shoes of a private gym owner in this town.
The other option if the City is determined to drive the private gyms out of business would be for them to at least have the decency to admit it, and to buy them out. These people's life's work and savings are wrapped up in these businesses. It is hard work, 365 days a year to be a fitness center owner, with believe it or not, not much return profit.
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Lisa-Marie Vowk on Jul 21, 2009 at 2:23 pm
The correct business name is Optimum Health Fitness & Sport - not Support Thank
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anonymous on Jul 21, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Hmm...small businesses charging too much for their products are upset when big box stores like Wal-mart and Superstore open...maybe you are charging too much for the same services that the canada games centre charges? If they can charge 20 for body composition testing then why do you charge 65? Quite a huge difference.
Also, I would feel more comfortable at the canada games centre because when you look around you don't see people who are already fit and who exercise for three hours straight every day.
Since I have belonged to both better bodies and peak fitness I would suggest that these places develop a friendlier attitude as well. Now I exercise at home which is more cost effective and comfortable for me.
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fitness fan on Jul 21, 2009 at 11:02 am
This argument goes around and around. Enough already. The Canada Games Centre was never meant to be a charity - and they are certainly not meeting a need no-one else can address. The other fitness facilities have been operating specialized programming for those that need a boost into fitness for decades.
Recover 100% of the cost of operating those areas/programs that are competing with private business and then offer whatever the market will bear. At least it will be fair.
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CGC Member on Jul 21, 2009 at 9:56 am
Much of its 12 year old equipment that is in need of replacement or repair. Maybe if Oster spent a bit of money on the place and cleaned it up a bit they would get back some of their former members. On the other hand, for around $45 dollars a month, you get full access to the CGC facility; unless you want to go tanning or attend a spin class or play squash I just don't see why anyone would want to go back to Better Bodies.
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mosi on Jul 21, 2009 at 8:43 am
So, Boo Hoo Hoo, Squak, Squak! Here we go again. The Business Compeditor will always Squak when the Gov Funded Programs give people a better deal. Dont Cry for Me Argintina. Private Business Centres have been overcharging for years and got away with it. Time to lower the costs so the comman person can stay fit?