Whitehorse Daily Star

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Keith Lay and Dave Pruden

ATV bylaw chugs back in council's hands

A few more changes could be in store for the city's new ATV Bylaw before it comes into effect.

By Stephanie Waddell on July 19, 2012

A few more changes could be in store for the city's new ATV Bylaw before it comes into effect.

In bringing forward a public hearing report on the proposed amendments at Monday evening's city council meeting, bylaw manager Dave Pruden suggested even more changes to the proposed bylaw.

Among them:

• ATV operators would be restricted entirely to motorized multi-use trails;

• operators would need to achieve at least an 80 per cent score on a test to get their Safe ATV card that will be required to ride in the city; and

• changes to the list of locations (such as campgrounds, downtown and the Millennium Trail, among others) where ATV operators could push their machines through if need be.

As Pruden noted, the proposed changes come out of what residents had to say at the July 9 public hearing session.

The move to keep ATVs on motorized multi-use trails, for example, was from a concern of the fires the machines can cause.

"Off-trail use often results in grasses or branches coming into contact with the all-terrain vehicle exhaust system,” Pruden stated in his report.

"Grass or branches igniting and falling to the ground as a result of heat from the exhaust system have been known to start fires.

"(By) limiting the use of all-terrain vehicles to developed motorized multiple use trails, there will be no contact with grasses or branches and therefore a significant reduction in the chance of fires starting.”

It was also pointed out at the hearing that the section on the ATV course should require an 80 per cent or higher grade.

"This will ensure persons taking the course are competent in the material taught,” Pruden said.

A number of speakers were opposed to permitting ATVs to be pushed through prohibited areas.

However, Pruden explained in the report the bylaw is permitting it to limit conflict between different users and damage to the environment.

"Allowing a person to push an ATV with the engine shut off eliminates the ability to speed, create noise and damage to the environment,” Pruden stated.

"Persons with machines too large to push will need to ensure they do not travel in areas they are prohibited to travel in.”

Boulevards, cemeteries, playgrounds and closed-off trails have been taken off the list of areas ATVs can be pushed. That leaves campgrounds, areas designated environmentally sensitive, downtown, the Millennium Trail, roadways (restricted and non-restricted), ski trails and non-motorized trails.

The changes proposed after the public hearing were not enough to satisfy at least one speaker, who argued for a more stringent bylaw at the public hearing.

Keith Lay made another presentation before council Monday night, arguing the bylaw is simply not ready to pass.

He continued to argue that ATVs should not be allowed to be pushed through any prohibited area.

Not only do sections of the bylaw need greater clarification, he said, but there also need to be certain restrictions.

Trails next to people's homes should be excluded from ATV use, he said.

He pointed out there is a higher likelihood of children playing there as well as other safety issues along with the noise residents would hear from the machines.

"Why put people at risk?” he questioned.

It would also be irresponsible of the city to permit ATVs on roads – which is proposed to allow operators to get to and from the closest trail – putting both the operators and other trail users at risk as the machines aren't manufactured for road use, Lay said.

He later asked council to hold off on the bylaw until the issues are addressed.

While Lay argued the regulations still need work, when it came up for council discussion later, Coun. Florence Roberts commented: "This is very idealistic.”

If the city had the ability to fully enforce the regulations, she said, it would be wonderful.

She also commented she'd like to see the territory enforce its regulations at the point of sale that ATV owners have insurance and register their vehicles, similar to requirements when buying a car, truck or SUV.

As Pruden noted though, there is concern among dealerships that such a requirement would see operators buy their machines Outside, in jurisdictions where there are no such restrictions.

That said, it wouldn't likely see purchasers move to B.C., where legislation has just been passed that insurance and registration for ATVs must be provided at the point of sale.

Pruden noted he is continuing to push the issue with the Yukon government.

Meanwhile, Coun. Dave Stockdale noted the numerous issues with ATVs in Riverdale. He wondered how it would "go over” if the city were to ban the machines in the neighbourhood.

"It's just a thought,” he said.

While Pruden said he prefers not to bring his opinion into the discussion, he said his sense is that such a move would not be favourable.

He did acknowledge that Riverdale probably has about the highest number of ATV complaints coming in, followed by Porter Creek.

If complaints about ATVs continue to come in after the updated bylaw is passed, Stockdale later questioned, is there a possibility the machines could eventually be banned within the city's urban containment boundary?

Pruden once again told Stockdale he doesn't want to bring his opinion into the conversation, but pointed out that typically where regulations aren't followed, rules get tighter and tighter.

He noted too it will take some time to educate the public on the new regulations.

Second and third readings of the bylaw are scheduled to come forward at next week's meeting.

See commentary on this issue in Friday's Star.

Comments (16)

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virgil on Jul 28, 2012 at 4:01 am

Maybe the way to do this is have the city impose ATV licenses, a large ID sticker, insurance and mandatory training.

It could then allow citizen groups to man check stops and dish out local enforcement for all those yahoos who think they are above the law. We could then clean up Porter Creek and Mary lake for example and catch those who have avoided RCMP check stops for years.

It works for me and would be one cut above vigilante justice.

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PFP on Jul 26, 2012 at 4:31 am

Even if all these new changes are passed, people are still going to use their atvs in the city. Why? Because its a way of life in not only the Yukon but the north. People should be able to leave their driveway and go to the back country. I'm sorry if people like Keith Lay don't like them and find them annoying. I sit in my backyard and listen to vehicles roar around on the street, which causes more noise and pollution than atv ever will.

I do, however, agree that there should be some sort of age requirement where kids aren't just given freedom to tear around the neighborhood. In my opinion, this is what is causing most of the complaints. Places like the trail along Hamilton, the Millenium Trail don't need to have atvs flying up an down them. As far as the trails behind Copper Ridge, Riverdale etc, sorry but if people are riding responsibily, they have just as much right to use them as people walking dogs, jogging or riding mountain bikes.

And…...Keith Lay come on. He has been complaining about this since I met him in the early 90"s.

I agree completely

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Stan Rogers on Jul 26, 2012 at 3:52 am

Yukon Resident

I live near a greenbelt which motorized vehicles ATV use.

Regular vehicle traffic would be far less noisy- far less reving of motors, less idling with noisy mufflers and less sudden noisy accelerations. If it was a road rather than a trail I would hardly notice the ATV use.

There is quite a difference, thats my experience, and I support Keith for taking a stand staying with it.

The city should create areas just for ATV use. People can trailer their ATV's to these areas. Yes, this is the north, but its also a city with wilderness and environmental protection standards. This dogma about lifestyle does not apply anymore. When you think you can take something away from the residents who want quiet neighbourhoods you have gone too far.

Thanks Keith!

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Yukon resident on Jul 25, 2012 at 11:46 am

Even if all these new changes are passed, people are still going to use their atvs in the city. Why? Because its a way of life in not only the Yukon but the north. People should be able to leave their driveway and go to the back country. I'm sorry if people like Keith lay don't like them and find them annoying. I sit in my backyard and listen to vehicles roar around on the street, which causes more noise and pollution than atv ever will.

I do, however, agree that there should be some sort of age requirement where kids aren't just given freedom to tear around the neighborhood. In my opinion, this is what is causing most of the complaints. Places like the trail along hamilton, the millenium trail don't need to have atvs flying up an down them. As far as the trails behind copper ridge, riverdale etc, sorry but if people are riding responsibily,they have just as much right to use them as people walking dogs, jogging or riding mountain bikes.

And......Keith lay come on. He has been complaining about this since I met him in the early 90"s.

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Anonymous on Jul 25, 2012 at 12:59 am

I find it rather upsetting that because there are certain individuals who operate their ATVs like idiots within residential areas that the responsible operators are also being penalized.

I live on Wann and I can tell you the amount of ATV's that speed down the street is extremely irritating and dangerous; however, keep in mind that these people are mostly (if not all) teenagers and should not be operating a vehicle on any roadway.

I don't think ATVs should be banned but unfortunatly there are a number of people who don't uphold common courtesy within the city limits so they have ruined it for everyone else.

Yes education is a good idea although once completed I doubt anyone will still abide by it.

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treehugger on Jul 24, 2012 at 10:46 am

Of course ATV riders say share the trails with ATV's. They have a vested interest and could have heart failure from undertaking a moderate walk. Why should an out of shape smoker need to walk for recreation. That is something for a health nut or something a wingnut doctor would advise. Walking cuts into beer drinking time and requires too much work!

I say why should I have to share with noisy polluting machines. There should be trails cut just for ATV's and dirt bikes with mufflers which do not work. An ATV group can design and cut these trails and they can have access through someone's yard. Thats proactive and I have no issue with that. If we know where the motorheads will be then we can ensure that safety issues and insurance and licenses are dealt with. But no pushing of ATV's on the Millenium Trail or other areas. It gives children the wrong impression.

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peter thompson on Jul 24, 2012 at 5:39 am

Concerned

With all of the talk to ban ATV's and Snowmobiles from the city and if that happens then it means a total ban, no using them to help maintain trails or groom trails in the winter anywhere in the city. That would never happen. Ban bikes from the streets in the winter that won't happen. So lets try to get along. I like to ride my ATV but I get upset when I see people not stop to let a person walk by or are speeding. In Riverdale 10 to 15 years ago I thought it was more of a problem then. But the complainers will complain if they hear or see one. I have only been here for 30 years but have liked being able to leave from my house and enjoy a ride with my wife. It is my enjoyment but too many do not want to respect another person's enjoyment only what they want. If a person on a bike, ATV, Snowmobile or walking should all be able to enjoy the spaces and share. A special license is not an answer unless one has no license. Then they can take a course to obtain a License. And insurance should be for all that ride a bike, ATV or Snowmobile.

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Akimajuktuq on Jul 24, 2012 at 4:26 am

So, basically, a bunch of you are saying that one must afford a pickup truck in order to use an ATV if one lives in Whitehorse? (ie to transport it to the trails.)

Outlaw all ATV use in Whitehorse? Really? Why don't y'all just move back to southern big cities where there are no ATVs and the lifestyle exists to which you are accustomed?

I live in the North because that's the lifestyle I am accustomed to. I have to tolerate people doing things I don't agree with; maybe some of you have to practice some tolerance as well.

I currently live in a community where more people use ATVs than cars or trucks and all ATVs have to be registered and insured. It works just fine here, it works in Yellowknife, and it will work in Whitehorse. Besides, ATVs aren't much different than a motorcycle on the road, and are even quieter than some motorcycles.

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Grouch on Jul 23, 2012 at 1:47 pm

Max Mac

"some of the opposition to ATVs seems to border on an almost fanatical loathing of machines (and their users) that "taint” the concept of a "pristine Yukon wilderness.” No bylaw will ever satisfy them until near complete control has been satisfied (e.g. abolition of ATV use).

This is the Yukon, not some southern Ontario town, and we should keep that in mind."

Max, this city is in my backyard. Yes I came from southern Ontario- these evil machines do not belong on our streets or trails. Its ok for Old Crow and perhaps places like Pelly or Ross River, its part of a small town culture- but not yuppie ville. If you drink too much at a friends and need to get home- take a taxi. Why on earth do people drive the trails in Porter Creek to stay away from checkstops? Its criminal. Let clean it up, hmm its so much quieter and more relaxed without them. I guess I was right.

Its like kicking the smokers out of Timmy's- after awhile even they realize it was the right thing to do. Thanks Dave Stockdale, you have got this one right. Insurance, licenses, training- its all too much and difficult to enforce- ban them before our taxes go up from the lawsuits when an impaired ATV driver kills a couple of children out walking their lab.

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north_of_60 on Jul 23, 2012 at 12:04 pm

According to Yukon regulations ALL off road vehicles are required to be insured and registered.

Why isn't this law enforced and all off road machines without license plates ticketed?

If the Territorial Regulations are not enforced then any City Bylaws are just so much wishful thinking, unless there is a way to identify offending vehicles.

Councillor Florence Roberts seems to be the only one with a realistic grasp of what needs doing.

Enforce the Law.

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Al on Jul 23, 2012 at 7:55 am

ATV's have no place in the the city.

Simply ban them altogether. It is the most appropriate and safest thing to do.

For those older riders, walking will increase your longevity- get fit and get rid of that ATV.

Trails are for people and dogs and bikes. ATV's are for barren areas- use them at an old mine site but trailer them there. Better yet, get rid of them.

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Max Mack on Jul 20, 2012 at 8:09 am

There are many times over the years that I've been irritated with ATVs and snowmobiles on my street or when out on walks.

For that matter, there are many times that I have been irritated by irresponsible drivers of cars, trucks, bicycles, skateboarders, pedestrians and just about anything else that moves.

Laws are a necessary mechanism to regulate human behaviour. And, in this respect, I applaud CoW's attempt at improving the regulations.

However, some of the opposition to ATVs seems to border on an almost fanatical loathing of machines (and their users) that "taint" the concept of a "pristine Yukon wilderness." No bylaw will ever satisfy them until near complete control has been satisfied (e.g. abolition of ATV use).

This is the Yukon, not some southern Ontario town, and we should keep that in mind.

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Curious on Jul 20, 2012 at 5:48 am

So if the City was to ban the ATVs does that mean we would not be allowed to plow our driveways with our ATV? Mine is insured and registered.

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YukonAnn on Jul 19, 2012 at 11:25 am

To cure the city of these atv'ers , no operation of them within city limits period!

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Tyler on Jul 19, 2012 at 8:26 am

"Keith Lay made another presentation before council Monday night, arguing the bylaw is simply not ready to pass."

"He continued to argue that ATVs should not be allowed to be pushed through any prohibited area."

"Trails next to people's homes should be excluded from ATV use, he said."

"Why put people at risk?” he questioned."

These are all excellent points which need to be addressed.

What happens if someone without insurance or a license causes an accident and the city is sued. Some trails are on people's properties thus they could be sued as well. This whole thing is a mess and needs much more thought as Mr. Lay has suggested- he is the voice of reason please listen to him and not irresponsible ATV uses which represent maybe 10% of the total users- but they mess it up for everyone.

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PFP on Jul 19, 2012 at 7:04 am

no matter how this all plays out, it won't work. thats basically a guarantee.

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